bickster Posted November 12, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2011 lol...Have you seen some of the evolution theories to why dinosaurs became extinct? Yeah, an asteroid hitting the earth at the end of the Cretaceous period, how particularly far fetched is that! What dinosaurs did go into the ark would have been small, eggs etc..Perfectly reasonable..Then as the water subsided and they went out on land, food, disease, the climate would have all been different than before the flood..The world would have changed..Many animals, not just the dinosaurs may have died out. Remind me, what is the incubation period of a dinosaur egg? How long was the ark afloat again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Good post Juju. Good point on shellfish etc as well. Lot of stuff like with halal meat , kosher food etc was purely down to hygiene of the time. The bible in its way was trying to help ppl avoid stuff that was more likely to make you ill back then. Would have been very easy to get food poisoning etc like you say back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Good post Juju. Good point on shellfish etc as well. Lot of stuff like with halal meat , kosher food etc was purely down to hygiene of the time. The bible in its way was trying to help ppl avoid stuff that was more likely to make you ill back then. Would have been very easy to get food poisoning etc like you say back then. Total lack of understanding of the bible again.. Especially the shellfish part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Anyhow FWIW.... Dinosaurs or their eggs being around at the time of the Flood is highly unlikely. Young Earth Creationists beleive the earth was made in 6 literal days but that is impossible to my mind. Actually as I've said before the Bible itself lumps all the Creative days into one day later in Genesis and this is because the Hebrew word for Day means a period of time. The fifth creative day or period specifically mentions the "Great Sea Monsters" or "Great Lizards" being created in Genesis and also the " winged flying creatures" doesn't say specifically birds, so could include pterasaurs and at some stage birds. (Genesis 1:20-23) 20 And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day. I have to say watching David Attenborough's Flying monsters documentary painted a picture of an immense variety of flying pterasaurs, some evidently had feathers etc. If the Earth had a warm climate before the flood in the 5th Creative period and plenty of vegetation, then in these conditions animals tend to thrive and grow much larger eg Galapagos Islands. However surely most of the dinosaurs would have died out by the time of the 6th creative period. They are not mentioned. Regarding Geologists and the Flood Just having a quick look I did find an account of a published Geologist who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, therefore he would not be a young earth creationist, but he does believe in a Creator and the Flood. He has a pretty impressive list of published papers etc including one in 2005 which he co-authored for the Smithsonian Institute in the US. He appears to be an expert on the geology of Mars, which is interesting. Surely if he's got his interpretation of Earth's Geology so spectacularly wrong, with no scientific basis.. and what he beleives in is "stupid" to quote VT posters and was/is an embarassment to his peers why would he be allowed to be be a seeming authority on another planet's Geology? Also why would other Geologists be co-authoring papers with him? List of his published papers As he appears to still presently work for the US Geological Survey in Flagstaff Arizona, perhaps VT should email him and ask him to explain how HE interprets the geological evidence available and beleif in the Flood of Noah's Day? He did give a brief interview with the Awake Magazine for an article entitled "Why we Beleive in a Creator" and his comments were published in 2006 KENNETH LLOYD TANAKA PROFILE: I am a geologist presently employed by the U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, Arizona. For almost three decades, I have participated in scientific research in various fields of geology, including planetary geology. Dozens of my research articles and geologic maps of Mars have been published in accredited scientific journals. As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I spend about 70 hours every month promoting Bible reading. I was taught to believe in evolution, but I could not accept that the immense energy required to form the universe could have originated without a powerful Creator. Something cannot come from nothing. I also find a strong argument in favor of a Creator in the Bible itself. This book gives numerous examples of scientific facts in my field of expertise, such as that the earth is spherical in shape and hangs “upon nothing.” (Job 26:7; Isaiah 40:22) These realities were written in the Bible long before they were proved by human investigation. Think of the way we are made. We possess sensory perception, self-awareness, intelligent thought, communication abilities, and feelings. In particular, we can experience, appreciate, and express love. Evolution cannot explain how these wonderful human qualities came to be. Ask yourself, ‘How reliable and credible are the sources of information used to support evolution?’ The geologic record is incomplete, complex, and confusing. Evolutionists have failed to demonstrate proposed evolutionary processes in the laboratory with the use of scientific methodologies. And while scientists generally employ good research techniques to acquire data, they are often influenced by selfish motives when interpreting their findings. Scientists have been known to promote their own thinking when the data are inconclusive or contradictory. Their careers and their own feelings of self-worth play important roles. Both as a scientist and as a Bible student, I search for the whole truth, which reconciles all known facts and observations to reach the most accurate understanding. To me, belief in the Creator makes the most sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 **** hell, when will it end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 **** hell, when will it end! Oh sorry had the discussion ended? I had read the last few pages and one or two had asked for comments from geologists? So I thought I'd share what I'd found. If the mods think this is being trolled then they should lock the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 **** hell, when will it end! When the rapture comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 When the rapture comes Again not all of us beleive in the rapture or the theory of a young earth as you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Deleted double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowDoINotLikeThat Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Good post Juju. Good point on shellfish etc as well. Lot of stuff like with halal meat , kosher food etc was purely down to hygiene of the time. The bible in its way was trying to help ppl avoid stuff that was more likely to make you ill back then. Would have been very easy to get food poisoning etc like you say back then. Total lack of understanding of the bible again.. Especially the shellfish part. Erm..How? You also notably havent quite answered your take on Leviathan- which is it - biblical name for a sea dinosaur , beast demon or incarnation of Satan or all 3? You seemed to be earlier implying dinosaurs were demons or something (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 **** hell, when will it end! 1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoD Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 lol...Have you seen some of the evolution theories to why dinosaurs became extinct? What dinosaurs did go into the ark would have been small, eggs etc..Perfectly reasonable..Then as the water subsided and they went out on land, food, disease, the climate would have all been different than before the flood..The world would have changed..Many animals, not just the dinosaurs may have died out. So you believe in a global flood sent by god yet lol at the idea that an asteroid hit the earth despite the strong evidence that it hit in the gulf of mexico. You then state that Noah only took baby dinosaurs or eggs on the ark after being told that he had to keep all the animals alive. It turns out that most baby animals or eggs need to be taken care of properly or they die, seems like some poor work from Noah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 **** hell, when will it end! 1975 :-) yeah that question never did get answered .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Good post Juju. Good point on shellfish etc as well. Lot of stuff like with halal meat , kosher food etc was purely down to hygiene of the time. The bible in its way was trying to help ppl avoid stuff that was more likely to make you ill back then. Would have been very easy to get food poisoning etc like you say back then. Total lack of understanding of the bible again.. Especially the shellfish part. How? You also havent quite answered your take on Leviathan- which is it - biblical name for a sea dinosaur , beast demon or incarnation of Satan or all 3? You seemed to be earlier implying dinosaurs were demons or something (?) Leviathan could have been http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcosuchus As for old testament law...Jesus fulfilled them.. Acts 13.And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. Acts 14.But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. Acts 15.And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. Romans 14.I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 1 Timothy 4.For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 yeah that question never did get answered .... Are you referring to moi answering your question regarding this? ... I did respond Anyhow who cares?!!!...no picking on me guys .... I've done my back in and i'm in agony I blame those flipping apes personally for standing upright! :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Are you referring to moi answering your question regarding this? ... I did respond no way am I going back through 81 pages to try and find the answer lets just assume the world didn't end in 1975 and then i wont have to :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 So many posts Steaknchips likes to avoid, such as Juju's..... *waits for a link about how it isn't avoiding questions* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 So many posts Steaknchips likes to avoid, such as Juju's..... *waits for a link about how it isn't avoiding questions* thou shalt not acknowledge that which challenges ye intellectually (Job 4:13) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishVillan Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Getting some serious Bill Hicks : Revelations flashbacks in this topic. He nailed it 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Oh, god, arguing with a creationist is like arguing with a pig. (Lifted liberally from from Sir C G Krulak). forgive me for preparing to get dirty...... If you believe in the written word of the bible (heaven help us, quite literally!) can I ask why? I don't mean in terms of your beliefs, but what is it about the King James Bible written in er, 1644ad, that you find specifically convincing, over say, the other versions written previously. Given that the bible only contains iro 66 ish books, and I presume you include the Old Testament including Leviticus (and we can address THAT later, do you acknowledge that when the early christian church sat down to compile a "New Testament" "bible the council of Rome considered, and ejected something in the order of 350 other scripts, such as the Book of Enoch, and as such, the NT is not "the word of God" but a hugely edited and redrafted work of a comittee, 350 years after Jesus died. Given that printing was almost unheard of, and frankly, they didn't even have Amstrad Word Processors it was so long ago, and so much was "passed down" orally from generation do you think the "word of God" is credibly the final draft of King James 1300 years after the committee, and nearly 1700 years after Jesus was crucified? Or is the Bible a work of man,written and edited by man, to reflect stories of wise men who wrote often many years after the event? (and God help me for getting dragged into this brainwashed nutters delusions). Oh, and one passing thought. If you had been born to Asian parents, in say, a poor part of Pakistan, or of poor parents in Thsiland, do you think you would still be a Christian, or might it credibly be your European upbringing that "introduced" you to Christinity? Is your faith nothing but a quirk of Geography? Do you really believe your choice is through free will, and did you "investigate"other faiths before deciding on GodMk II (Jews, are God MkI and Muslims God MkIII)? And tell us your thoughts on Leviticus. Particularly the Shellfish thing. I'd love to hear you explain that. I mean, in fairness, at the Galilee docks circa BC500, sure they didn't have much in terms of refrigeration, so Shellfish out of season might have been a bit dodgy, but you'd eat a prawn cracker, if we went out for a Chinese, wouldn't you? I mean, I can see that women who menstruate are unclean, so we have something in common, but theres some pretty funky advice about buying slaves in there I find is always useful. Do you have many slaves yourself? (You *DO* Believe in slaves, as its in theBible?) I have one, who's an unchase daughter of a Priest, so I expect I shall have to kill her soon. Thats a shame, she's got a cracking pair on her.... Must go, I have animals to burn to anoint the Lord with their sweet smell. I suppose thats why he gave us Foot and Mouth in his wisdom. AVFC, Ive answered ALL Juju's points during the course of this thread.. The 1st part, comes under how reliable is the new testament which I answered in the early stages of this thread. You can find here; http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence The second part of Juju's post I answered many pages back, what does God do regarding people who do not know or hear about Christ etc. http://carm.org/what-happens-those-who-have-never-heard-gospel The last part which is focused on Leviticus law, Ive just answered..Jesus fulfilled the laws and regulations.. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3%3A23-25&version=KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts