CI Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I think we should judge McLeish on next season, not necessarily this one Give him the summer to shape things and then give him say upto Xmas If there's no improvement then he goes in January and we start the process all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaRoy Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Risso, what backs up you saying McLeish is comfortably the worse manager in the Prem and Championship? Or do I sense sarcasm ? Bar his relegations with Blues, he's had a good career so far. His approach to football is just fundamentally flawed. I hate watching his teams, and his Premier League record with us and Blues is dismal given the resources he's had. He finished something like the highest Blues have ever placed in the top division and won them their first piece of good silverware in 50 years. His first relegation was not totally in his hands and second one was a constant battle with the board above him and lack of any strikers/good defenders after the league cup win. Yeah I don't want the guy and I didn't, but I don't think he is the worse manager in the Prem and Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I think we should judge McLeish on next season, not necessarily this one Give him the summer to shape things and then give him say upto Xmas If there's no improvement then he goes in January and we start the process all over again Is this your stance for this week is it? :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I think we should judge McLeish on next season, not necessarily this one Give him the summer to shape things and then give him say upto Xmas If there's no improvement then he goes in January and we start the process all over againWhy wait? We're going to have to get rid at some point might as well do it this summer. I would've thought someone who believed McLeish to be one of the worst Villa managers ever would want him gone ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes agree, but my concern is the next appointment won't be any better The club needs a bit of stability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes agree, but my concern is the next appointment won't be any better The club needs a bit of stabilityI think it would be hard to get any worse than McLeish. Yes, we do need stability, but we also need a manager that's not shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Is this the Swansea that lost 4-2 at Blackburn and 3-1 at Norwich ? Is this the Swansea who won 2-0 at Villa Park and beat Manchester City 1-0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Is this the Swansea that lost 4-2 at Blackburn and 3-1 at Norwich ? Is this the Swansea who won 2-0 at Villa Park and beat Manchester City 1-0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 It would be nice to think that if we stuck with McCleish he would come good ala Moyes, Fergie and many other managers who were slow burners but because we instantly use his time at the Scum as a marker for his success and ability then no-one is ever going to give Eck a chance. What in his past record marks him out as a manager who - given time- will oversee a massive upturn in fortunes? Ferguson had an incredible record at Aberdeen and Moyes at decent one at Preston. Also, using Ferguson as an example of giving a struggling manager time is almost always flawed, as it ignores the fact that Fergie took United to 2nd place in his second season in 88. I have a sneaking suspicion that any Villa manager who oversaw that in his second year might be given a bit more time too. Big Eck's stint at Rangers is without question the most successful period of his CV -and even there it's pretty obvious to spot a major decline under him. From 100 goals in a season to finishing 3rd in a two horse race. Impressive. His stint as Scotland manager can be considered a success - of sorts, I suppose. Despite failure to qualify for a major tournament. Some impressive victories and draws against more fancied nations. But 10 men behind the ball, hacking the ball away under pressure and nicking it with a James McFadden wonder strike against the run of play is a perfectly acceptable approach to adopt for a minnow. For a club like Villa, we expect a wee bit more. Not trophies (or even competing for them) anymore, sadly. Sign o' the times. But we do expect to at least have a go and take the game to the opposition, particularly at home. After the initial shock and disappointment of an appointment so unambitious, I think most were willing to give him a chance. Yet going into mid March this year we had won a grand total of three games at VP. Now four. That, primarily, is why he takes the stick he does. Not his past associations. His past associations merely highlight his limitations and demonstrate why he is unlikely to be a success here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Well he's won a trophy in England which is something we havent done for 16 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Well he's been relegated in England which is something we havent done for more than 16 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 But is finishing 6th three times as opposed to once really that much more of an achievement? Yeah it's good but I don't think it's anything amazing. Again, I never actually said it was the same as doing it once. Stop putting words into my mouth. You do it virtually every time you post. Well yes you have said its the same, everytime you said that 6th place isn't anything special because so many managers have achieved it or beaten it, including Dol. When you put forward that argument, which you have done often, it's clearly arguing that doing it once is the same. I don't have to put anything in your mouth, your poor inconsistent argument speaks volumes. And yeah 3 6th place finishes aren't amazing, you don't win anything for it, but since the prem began not many clubs have been able to achieve that level of consistency. And it's certainly a level of consistency we won't see for a long time in the future thanks to our owners managerial appointments and lack of financial control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 And yeah 3 6th place finishes aren't amazing, you don't win anything for it, but since the prem began not many clubs have been able to achieve that level of consistency. And it's certainly a level of consistency we won't see for a long time in the future thanks to our owners managerial appointments and lack of financial control. To put the achievement in to some kind of perspective the last time we achieved 3 top 6 finishes on the spin pre 2007 - 2010 was in the early 1930's almost 80 years previously. I therefore don't think it is anything to be sniffed at and you are also likely to be correct in stating it will be a very long time before we achieve that level of consistency again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Well he's won a trophy in England which is something we havent done for 16 years The trophy he won was the League Cup,and the only reason he won that was because Arsenal thought that all they had to do was call in at Wembly on the way home from the Newcastle match to pick it up. I watched the final and no way did Arsenal deserve to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 And yeah 3 6th place finishes aren't amazing, you don't win anything for it, but since the prem began not many clubs have been able to achieve that level of consistency. And it's certainly a level of consistency we won't see for a long time in the future thanks to our owners managerial appointments and lack of financial control. To put the achievement in to some kind of perspective the last time we achieved 3 top 6 finishes on the spin pre 2007 - 2010 was in the early 1930's almost 80 years previously. I therefore don't think it is anything to be sniffed at and you are also likely to be correct in stating it will be a very long time before we achieve that level of consistency again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 It would be nice to think that if we stuck with McCleish he would come good ala Moyes, Fergie and many other managers who were slow burners but because we instantly use his time at the Scum as a marker for his success and ability then no-one is ever going to give Eck a chance. What in his past record marks him out as a manager who - given time- will oversee a massive upturn in fortunes? Ferguson had an incredible record at Aberdeen and Moyes at decent one at Preston. Also, using Ferguson as an example of giving a struggling manager time is almost always flawed, as it ignores the fact that Fergie took United to 2nd place in his second season in 88. I have a sneaking suspicion that any Villa manager who oversaw that in his second year might be given a bit more time too. Big Eck's stint at Rangers is without question the most successful period of his CV -and even there it's pretty obvious to spot a major decline under him. From 100 goals in a season to finishing 3rd in a two horse race. Impressive. His stint as Scotland manager can be considered a success - of sorts, I suppose. Despite failure to qualify for a major tournament. Some impressive victories and draws against more fancied nations. But 10 men behind the ball, hacking the ball away under pressure and nicking it with a James McFadden wonder strike against the run of play is a perfectly acceptable approach to adopt for a minnow. For a club like Villa, we expect a wee bit more. Not trophies (or even competing for them) anymore, sadly. Sign o' the times. But we do expect to at least have a go and take the game to the opposition, particularly at home. After the initial shock and disappointment of an appointment so unambitious, I think most were willing to give him a chance. Yet going into mid March this year we had won a grand total of three games at VP. Now four. That, primarily, is why he takes the stick he does. Not his past associations. His past associations merely highlight his limitations and demonstrate why he is unlikely to be a success here. With you all the way there It cant be good over there ?! as it is I get stick because we could not beat Wigan and Blackburn ........and I live in Australia :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamsonwoodVillan Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Thought it was ridiculous of DOL to publicly comment that O'Neill had never achieved better than he had as Villa manager. Fair enough we only finished as high as 6th under MON which only matched what DOL did, but I think the way we improved overall as a club in that time and the consistency shown far outweighs what "success" O'Leary achieved. I actually thought back in summer that next to other names being banded around as realistic contenders for us, McLeish wasn't the worst appointment. What's really disappointed me is how badly we've played all year with the decent quality we do have. How much of it is McLeish's negative style, poor substitutions, tactics etc I'm not sure - but the group of players you may label as our 'big players' (Bent, Agbonlahor, N'Zogbia, Ireland, Dunne, even Given) I think have performed actually pretty poorly so far this season. Petrov is the only senior player I would honestly say has had a consistently good season. I've backed McLeish's enthusiasm for blooding the young lads as long as they're good enough (questionable?), but I think McLeish can be forgiven in as far as the players just haven't performed well enough. Just my opinion. If next year the form of the players is a bit more realistic, then we might see a more true reflection on just how bad his management skills are?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Well he's won a trophy in England which is something we havent done for 16 years The trophy he won was the League Cup,and the only reason he won that was because Arsenal thought that all they had to do was call in at Wembly on the way home from the Newcastle match to pick it up. I watched the final and no way did Arsenal deserve to lose. I think it was more a case of Arsenal losing the trophy than small heath winning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes agree, but my concern is the next appointment won't be any better The club needs a bit of stability Wow, the first bit of sense you've come out with! I quite agree, Houllier was a disaster and McLeish is even worse, is it the start of a horrible pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I watched the final and no way did Arsenal deserve to lose. You could say exactly the same about Bayern Munich in 1982. Or some would say ipswich in 1981 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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