Villarocker Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the team at 3pm. No Warnock - yippee and Gardner in - yippee. Thought we started brightly and looked great for first third of the game. Then, out of nowhere, Wolves turned into savages and tore into us. Lucky to go in only one down and we end up winning it. Couldn't believe the changes at the beginning of the second half but we go and score and get ourselves level. Was it a masterstroke by AM or did we just get lucky that our captain kicked the face off their best player and their captain lost his own head by kicking Albrighton? How many Villa fans - pro McLeish or not - honestly think we would have won that game if Frimpong and Henry had stayed on the pitch until the end? I don't! Looking at tonights table in 12th when we could so easily have been 16th. Oh, and if Gabby being injured was the reason for the sub, why not put on an attacking player as been as we were a goal down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 But i think the houllier chaos would have spilled over into this season had he stayed.How so? There were bright signs when he got his own players in. I'll admit that Houllier didn't really do well with the squad he had but I think he had the long term plan where as with McLeish there isn't one. I mean if you're a club that's fighting relegation and looking to stay up you probably wouldn't bring Houllier in to sort that out (then again, McLeish didn't exactly do a great job of keeping SHA up) but if you're looking to set the foundations for a better future then Houllier isn't a bad manager for that. That IMO is what the board were trying to do. I have no idea why they got McLeish though because as I said, there's no long term plan with him. Houllier had a long term plan and McLeish has none? Is that your point? Prove it, please. Where has Mcleish said "I have no long term plan? Lerner? Faulkner? Surely you must have proof when you assert such a damning accusation. Surely you're not mean spirited, petty, or desperate enough to just make up pure crap and use it as proof that McLeish is the wrong man for Villa? What with all the certain facts that could prove it, why would you resort to making crap up? So, I request a citation to the statement "I have no long term plan for this club."All you have to do is watch how we play. We're not trying to keep the ball and move away from the kick and rush football that we've been employing for years at the club. His signings certainly don't suggest that he wants to add more technical quality to the squad. Houllier was a clown and a disaster. Will wait until the summer to see how McLeish is doing, but it looks like he is a lot better than the clown. How is McLeish a lot better and how was Houllier a disaster? He is yielding more points per match, more goals scored per match and we let in less goals per match even after losing vital players. He is also not destroying player values by doing the isolation trick against certain players (Warnock, Carew, Ireland). He is also not doing silly double standard desicions that makes the players lose respect for him (trying to force players to move to Birmingham area, while signing Pires who is allowed to live in London). He is not disrespecting the club, like Houllier did when he touched the This is Liverpool sign and then forget about the Villa supporters and clapping the kop and then say when we were going to be crap, he was glad it was against Liverpool.Houllier came in mid September though. He never had a pre-season and he never had a chance to sign any of his own players until January. But Warnock, Carew and Ireland all never performed under him (or Kevin MacDonald for that matter). Admittedly Ireland seems to be coming good but over the course of the season Warnock hasn't done much to suggest that he deserves to be here. Yeah I'll give you that one with regards to Pires, although I think wanting the players to move to Birmingham is a good idea. I think the PR front is perhaps the only area where McLeish has done better. I think he made some stupid comments but at the same time I think people made a bigger deal out of them than was necessary. Still, McLeish has lied to the fans several times this season so he's not much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's ridiculous. Alex McLeish isn't Villa. He's a passenger. Just like the players and board. We support the ethos of the club, not individuals. and yet by being so negative to our manager, you (collectively, not you singularly) bring negativity to the club and thereby aren't supporting your club. there were people in the match thread actually saying that they wanted us to lose because they didn't like AMC. totally crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's ridiculous. Alex McLeish isn't Villa. He's a passenger. Just like the players and board. We support the ethos of the club, not individuals. and yet by being so negative to our manager, you (collectively, not you singularly) bring negativity to the club and thereby aren't supporting your club. there were people in the match thread actually saying that they wanted us to lose because they didn't like AMC. totally crazy.I'm sorry but merely being negative about the manager doesn't mean somebody doesn't support the club. That's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Oh, and if Gabby being injured was the reason for the sub, why not put on an attacking player as been as we were a goal down? Ciaran was getting torn apart at LB (not enough pace and poor at tracking his man), so the priority was solidifying that spot with Warnock, and get more stability back into the team. Then by sticking Ciaran in midfield we could get a bit more of a presence as the game seemed to be passing us by in that area for large parts of the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 But i think the houllier chaos would have spilled over into this season had he stayed.How so? There were bright signs when he got his own players in. I'll admit that Houllier didn't really do well with the squad he had but I think he had the long term plan where as with McLeish there isn't one. I mean if you're a club that's fighting relegation and looking to stay up you probably wouldn't bring Houllier in to sort that out (then again, McLeish didn't exactly do a great job of keeping SHA up) but if you're looking to set the foundations for a better future then Houllier isn't a bad manager for that. That IMO is what the board were trying to do. I have no idea why they got McLeish though because as I said, there's no long term plan with him. Houllier had a long term plan and McLeish has none? Is that your point? Prove it, please. Where has Mcleish said "I have no long term plan? Lerner? Faulkner? Surely you must have proof when you assert such a damning accusation. Surely you're not mean spirited, petty, or desperate enough to just make up pure crap and use it as proof that McLeish is the wrong man for Villa? What with all the certain facts that could prove it, why would you resort to making crap up? So, I request a citation to the statement "I have no long term plan for this club."All you have to do is watch how we play. We're not trying to keep the ball and move away from the kick and rush football that we've been employing for years at the club. His signings certainly don't suggest that he wants to add more technical quality to the squad. Oh, so because his actions don't appear to support the same plan of his predecessor, you assume and assert confidently that he has no plan at all. I would suggest that there are other goals and plans to consider. I would also say that at least 2 of his signings, (zog and keane) have already accomplished more toward a long term plan of success than several he let leave. I propose that he likely has an alternate long term plan. One that weighs economic stability balanced with league safety in the short term, in order to have long term success for the club. I don't know if my theory is right. But I think it's more likely than the assertion "he has no long term plan." I think if you're honest you'll admit that it's highly unlikely that he has no long term plan... might not be one either of us like mind you, but making up crap to prove he's no good, smacks of desperation. edit, your last sentence undermines your theory that the previous manager had a long term plan and AM does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm not so sure a plan that if carried out will see us become more effective at playing hoofball is a long term one. The game is changing and it is becoming more important to keep the ball on the deck. This is only going to go one way. Also, what's he doing or trying to do about the non-existent scouting system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm sorry but merely being negative about the manager doesn't mean somebody doesn't support the club. That's ridiculous. if it was just merely being negative to our manager, then i would agree with you. wanting us to lose to make the manager look bad, not being happy when we win, that is a step too far. i would love to see the back of AMC and have a new manager, but thats not going to happen (this season anyway), so people need to just get on with supporting the club and especially enjoying our wins (more so because there might not many of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Wanting us to lose is a completely different matter. However, all you said was that not supporting McLeish means not supporting the club when that just isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Instead of bickering amongst yourselves (after a win as well :? ), why not give the guy a proper chance and wait until the end of a full season before doing your castigating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Wanting us to lose is a completely different matter. However, all you said was that not supporting McLeish means not supporting the club when that just isn't true. its not true in all cases, but is true in some cases (like the later examples i gave about wanting to lose). too much vanilla vodka made me try to explain in one sentence (badly i guess). :winkold: hopefully my other posts after that clarified it a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Instead of bickering amongst yourselves (after a win as well :? ), why not give the guy a proper chance and wait until the end of a full season before doing your castigating?We're not castigating. However, some of us here do not feel he is the right man for the job based on what he's shown so far. His performance with SHA does nothing to ease our fears. I'll give him credit for the win though and I would certainly love to see us go on a good run of form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted January 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2012 Oh, and if Gabby being injured was the reason for the sub, why not put on an attacking player as been as we were a goal down? Ciaran was getting torn apart at LB (not enough pace and poor at tracking his man), so the priority was solidifying that spot with Warnock, and get more stability back into the team. Then by sticking Ciaran in midfield we could get a bit more of a presence as the game seemed to be passing us by in that area for large parts of the first half. clark had a quality 2nd half...the holding role is definitely his best position. i think mcleish knew he needed to drop warnock and clark is the only player he could replace him with. though warnock actually played pretty well when he came on to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well he's had 4 good away wins in the last couple of months but our home form is really letting us down. Like others have said, its time to accept he's here for the season at least, then its time to judge him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ...some of us here do not feel he is the right man for the job based on what he's shown so far. So far we're 50 odd minutes in to a 90 minute season. Much of the first half was poor, but we may go on to do reasonably well. After all, the ony score that matters is after the final whistle. Ring any bells? :winkold: Anyway, I'm off for a storming Saturday night/Sunday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I support Villa, AMC is currently Villa, and so by not supporting AMC you are not supporting Villa. That's utter tosh especially if the implication is that by criticizing the manager you aren't supporting your club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 He is on course fOr a 7/10 January. Win our next home game and it's an 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 We should fOr one game back him to the hilt. At least then we cannot say we haven't done beyond our requirements to back the team. Why are we playing much better away from home? What is it about vp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That's utter tosh especially if the implication is that by criticizing the manager you aren't supporting your club. i'd ask you to read the rest of the next page and a half, where i tried to explain what i meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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