bickster Posted July 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Some people dont know the politics behind it Even after reading it? It's got a reading age of about 8. Are these people "special"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Sorry to be a dickhead, but if you read it and don't understand the politics you should probably move to TV news as I'm not sure reading is for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Sorry to be a dickhead, but if you read it and don't understand the politics you should probably move to TV news as I'm not sure reading is for you. Education sam. Some people dont know that murdoch owns it. In fact some people may not even know who rupert murdoch is. Think its silly to name everyone that reads the sun as a scumbag. And i hate murdochs guts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Education sam. Some people dont know that murdoch owns it. In fact some people may not even know who rupert murdoch is. Think its silly to name everyone that reads the sun as a scumbag. And i hate murdochs guts I think that's being a bit generous to be honest. I'm not sure I've ever had a conversation where someone hasn't known who Murdoch is. The point is more about what they write being having transparent motives rather than Murdoch himself though. I do try not to judge as I've met plenty of people who take positions that are insane to me, but are willing to reassess when challenged. I'm not the most patient person all the time and will often just assume they 'get it' and push back. I've always tried to engage but the current state of discourse has given me a shorter tether. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is something I'm working on as I appreciate I'm constantly reading and I do often find myself surprised with people that believe stuff without looking into it themselves. My sister is a good example. It's hard to take these positions without sounding like a snob but I do find it really frustrating how social media and the tabloid press means information is spread through thousands of people that don't critically assess the merits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 To be honest, I don't really think the debate around the morality of the readers is all that interesting or important. The salient facts of the case that started this discussion are that the Sun appear to have obtained, through underhand means, audio recordings of Ashley Cole and Michael Essien talking to a therapist, in Cole's case in some distress. There is no plausible justification for the Sun to obtain these recordings. There is no possible public interest justification, and the principle of doctor-patient confidentiality is one of the most deeply- and widely-held principles across the world. I think, rather than focus on hypothetical discussions about whether individual readers could also be good people, it would be best to focus on the product itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: ... i agree the owner and everything he represents is pure and utter scum 21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Think its silly to name everyone that reads the sun as a scumbag. And i hate murdochs guts I’m struggling here. You hate Murdoch and you think everything he represents is pure and utter scum. Everything he does is funded by the people that pay for it, the sort of people that buy the Sun. If they stopped buying it on Monday, he wouldn’t bother printing it on Tuesday. That simple. It would be over 48 hours after they withdrew funding. Do you think they’ve been tricked in some way? Everyday? Or they don’t understand what they are reading? Or something else? What is it that gets them out of the blame for the Sun still existing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m struggling here. You hate Murdoch and you think everything he represents is pure and utter scum. Everything he does is funded by the people that pay for it, the sort of people that buy the Sun. If they stopped buying it on Monday, he wouldn’t bother printing it on Tuesday. That simple. It would be over 48 hours after they withdrew funding. Do you think they’ve been tricked in some way? Everyday? Or they don’t understand what they are reading? Or something else? What is it that gets them out of the blame for the Sun still existing? It’s a case of habit, something older people are generally guilty of. My father-in-law started reading it in the 60s and 70s when he was grafting 12 hours a day as a sheet metal worker in Wolverhampton. The other alternative at the time would’ve been the Mirror for the working man and back then, no other real alternatives, No Internet no social media and three television channels. Family generally read the same paper for decades and old habits die hard. He still reads it back to front I would be amazed if he ever got passed the TV guide but to suggest he is a scumbag or maybe ‘special’ Is bloody rude Edited July 12, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: It’s a case of habit, something older people are generally guilty of. My father-in-law started reading it in the 60s and 70s when he was grafting 12 hours a day as a sheet metal worker in Wolverhampton. The other alternative at the time would’ve been the Mirror for the working man and back then, no other real alternatives, No Internet no social media and three television channels. Family generally read the same paper for decades and old habits die hard. He still reads it back to front I would be amazed if he ever got passed the TV guide but to suggest he is a scumbag or maybe ‘special’ Is bloody rude I’d read it before your edit. Misquoting people in defence of Sun readers. Dial up the irony to 11. But even now, I didn’t say special. You’ve suggested your father in law might be special, your description, not mine. But I can’t get emotional about another anecdotal character I don’t know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’d read it before your edit. Misquoting people in defence of Sun readers. Dial up the irony to 11. But even now, I didn’t say special. You’ve suggested your father in law might be special, your description, not mine. But I can’t get emotional about another anecdotal character I don’t know. I was not quoting you with the special part, that was done by somebody else further up the thread. Apologies for the confusion. I gave you an example of why somebody might read the Sun, or the mirror or whatever paper they have done for the last God knows how long. I’m not asking you to get emotional about somebody you don’t know I’m just telling you he reads the Sun and he’s not a scumbag Edited July 12, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 We’ll have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bannedfromHandV Posted July 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) I used to buy the sun, mainly for the sport and the tits back before smart phones existed. To be honest I don’t really know why anybody bothers buying a paper now, it’s rare there’s any great degree of real journalism amongst the lot of them and the ‘news’ it delivers is obsolete within an hour of it being printed. Christopher Walken once approached me in the hotel I worked at way back when, asked for recommendations on which paper to buy, I was like 17 years old and recommended the sun, to Christopher f*****g Walken Edited July 13, 2020 by bannedfromHandV 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 8 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I’m struggling here. You hate Murdoch and you think everything he represents is pure and utter scum. Everything he does is funded by the people that pay for it, the sort of people that buy the Sun. If they stopped buying it on Monday, he wouldn’t bother printing it on Tuesday. That simple. It would be over 48 hours after they withdrew funding. Do you think they’ve been tricked in some way? Everyday? Or they don’t understand what they are reading? Or something else? What is it that gets them out of the blame for the Sun still existing? Im referring to him as a individual as my post highlights as in how much influence he has, phone hacking and just generally what arsehole he is. Not every person knows the history of murdoch. Ignorance? Perhaps. But some people may not have the intelligence or interest of knowing the back story of thay news paper. To you last question no i dont thinm they are tricked. Just easily manipulated but what the sun offers. That dont make them a scumbag. Cant agree with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 13, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 13, 2020 12 hours ago, chrisp65 said: We’ll have to agree to disagree. More than welcome to meet up with us down the Villa as he comes down a few times (semi converted him from a dog head) for a pint before the game when it’s allowed again and you can draw your own opinion and maybe explain your thinking to him. Open ended offer, I will even get them in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 01/03/2020 at 23:32, HanoiVillan said: During the election campaign, Tom Newton Dunn - the Sun's political editor - put out a bizarre, conspiracy-theory style 'network analysis' of people connected to the Labour leadership, which subsequently turned out to have been largely sourced from neo-Nazi websites, and he has faced no apparent professional consequences whatsoever for that. On 08/05/2020 at 17:19, HanoiVillan said: In the two and a half months since that post, he has still faced no professional consequence, and as far as I am aware, has not addressed the matter in any way. I'm not saying this is a surprise, but it's worth noting. *bitter laugh* 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted July 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 23, 2020 As someone mentioned in the tory thread, it’s not just the lies, it’s the absolute lack of recognition or shame when lies are challenged. The whole establishment have worked out that for millions of voters none of it really matters, it’s red team or blue team and they’re probably both the same anyway. I’m just hoping there’s more of a cycle here, that we will eventually expect more of the establishment and so grudgingly get more. Rather than what appears to be the case of simply slipping down the same slope as the U.S.. It really is too depressing to dwell on it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 13/07/2020 at 01:57, bannedfromHandV said: Christopher Walken once approached me in the hotel I worked at way back when, asked for recommendations on which paper to buy, I was like 17 years old and recommended the sun, to Christopher f*****g Walken I'd did wonder what he was going on about in that interview where he starts rambling on about Keeley, 22, from Walthamstow. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) On 12/07/2020 at 21:23, chrisp65 said: Of those, the ones that I know well enough to call friends, none of them read the Sun. If they did, they wouldn’t be close friends, they’d be Sun reading tools. Sorry , bit late to the party on this one .... Something similar came up in the Brexit thread where a lot of people claimed not to know any friends that voted leave .. and if they did they wouldn't be friends , it suggests a very narrow world in which people live ( not having a dig , just an observation) I mean I'm white trash but my circle of friends includes Sun readers , Guardian readers , FT readers , beano readers , people that support West Ham , Barnsley , Spurs , Man U , even Ipswich Town ... People that are office workers , Harley Street dentists , builders, Human Rights lawyers , plumbers , accountants ,pilots , Stock brokers , spies ... people that voted Leave , Remain or didn't vote at all .. Even my NCT curry group where they spout on about Labour and how wonderful they are still make the friends list, and we socialize regularly I get the sentiment , but personally , I couldn't give a **** if one of my friends read the morning star , Rodong Sinmun or USA today .. Edited July 24, 2020 by tonyh29 thanks for pointing out the spelling error snowy :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I’m not some militant leftie, I’m a very reasonable middle of the road sort of chap. Brexit, I can see some arguments for both sides for some people. It’s that not all brexit voters are racists thing again. There would be decent Brexit voters. You shouldn’t judge people before you get to know them. Buying the Sun would be the obvious exception to that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 On 23/07/2020 at 11:08, HanoiVillan said: *bitter laugh* It never happened according to Tom. You must be mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I mean, that's a breakthrough, that denial is the first time I'm aware of that he's ever acknowledged anyone talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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