chrisp65 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Stephen Port, killed 4 between 2014 - 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: Do all these serial killer and murder investigation docuseries on the streaming services inspire copycats? I felt like there was a realisation in the 90s / 2000s that fetishising serial killers and giving them nicknames was a dangerous thing to do, and the news media had generally become more responsible. But we seem to have gone back to treating them like celebrities. Isn’t it a bit sick? My general feeling is if someone becomes a murderer, in all probability they would have killed regardless of whether they saw a serial killer documentary or not. Likewise a violent movie. Ok they might copy traits from something they’ve seen, so the chance of there being a copy cat killing might increase. But my gut feeling is that more than 99% of serial killers would still be killers if there was no murder-centric TV/film content to copy from. As for the killer fetishising, I think that’s been there in some form or another for some time. There was “Born to Kill?” which ran from 2005, profiling the formative years of notorious serial killers. There were documentaries in the 90’s about the likes of Dahmer, Gacy, Wuornos. They’re probably marketed slightly differently and the documentaries having their own sub section on streaming services probably can seem a bit excessive. And because the shows themselves are generally well made it looks like it’s glamorising the killers. Edited January 13, 2022 by Mark Albrighton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted January 13, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2022 I feel this way about how gangsters are often glorified as well. A guy I used to work with would buy all the books and go to paid "meets with" from various ex gangsters. Leaves me baffled, they are cashing in on the misery and violence they inflicted on people. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 13, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: As for the killer fetishising, I think that’s been there in some form or another for some time. There was “Born to Kill?” which ran from 2005, profiling the formative years of notorious serial killers. Goes right back to the 'penny dreadful' magazines in Victorian times. Sold like hotcakes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, KentVillan said: Do all these serial killer and murder investigation docuseries on the streaming services inspire copycats? I felt like there was a realisation in the 90s / 2000s that fetishising serial killers and giving them nicknames was a dangerous thing to do, and the news media had generally become more responsible. But we seem to have gone back to treating them like celebrities. Isn’t it a bit sick? I have watched and read a lot about this stuff. A few personnel thoughts on this. - I don't think they cause other copycats or serial killers to exist, I think they would be serial killers in the end anyway. - They always get names eg Jack the Ripper in London. It's human nature to attach a name to something I suppose especially if a community is fearful + "Be careful. The Butcher might be on the prowl" does the intended job nicely. It helps the investigation and reduces confusion as everyone is talking about the same person. Jeff the Chopper or Axe man Jeffery. The media catches or helps catch a lot of people, give and take with the media. They got the reach but they need to sell papers. The name, sometimes its out of their hands and the news papers come up with it first. I think celebrity is the wrong word. They are interesting, like a rat with 2 heads. With DNA, mobile data/location, CCTV especially and ANPR for example in the UK, theirs days are over. Be astonished if there were many more now in the UK. All of the coverage in the 90/00's was becasue it was new (In that we could see the investigations). Most of the time they got them in the end + the coverage is imbedded in a small way. EG, your weird neighbor who keeps digging holes in his garden, in the 80's you might offer to help Edited January 13, 2022 by Amsterdam_Neil_D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Stephen Port, killed 4 between 2014 - 2015 You are right but he sort of had a free run at it. I believe he wanted to get caught on the 1st one. He called it in himself and the body was on his doorstep. They just let him do 3 more for no apparent reason (The Police). If you explained it in high level terms to a 6 year old they would have solved it. It was atrocious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Goes right back to the 'penny dreadful' magazines in Victorian times. Sold like hotcakes. Yep, an obvious one is loveable rogue and occasional killer Richard Turpin had the full character reappraisal which lasted for years. Also, admittedly not a killer, but persistent thief and expert jail escapee Jack Sheppard having Hogarth come and take his portrait while he’s chained up. There’s always been this fascination/glamorising of criminals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: You are right but he sort of had a free run at it. I believe he wanted to get caught on the 1st one. He called it in himself and the body was on his doorstep. They just let him do 3 more for no apparent reason (The Police). If you explained it in high level terms to a 6 year old they would have solved it. It was atrocious. Serial killers who target marginalised communities often get away with it for longer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Serial killers who target marginalised communities often get away with it for longer. Agreed but Port wouldn't get away with it now, I think they learnt a big lesson on that one. Shame they didnt just treat everyone the same to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Stephen Port, killed 4 between 2014 - 2015 23 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: You are right but he sort of had a free run at it. I believe he wanted to get caught on the 1st one. He called it in himself and the body was on his doorstep. They just let him do 3 more for no apparent reason (The Police). If you explained it in high level terms to a 6 year old they would have solved it. It was atrocious. I'm sure you guys already saw this, but for anyone who didn't I did a post listing the 30-odd mistakes the various investigations into Port's murders made in the Policing thread, and it really does beggar belief how badly they handled the investigations. Many of the mistakes were absolute howlers of the order of 'not bothering to contact relatives', 'not bothering to check IT equipment or for DNA evidence' etc. 8 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Agreed but Port wouldn't get away with it now, I think they learnt a big lesson on that one. Shame they didnt just treat everyone the same to start with. Let's hope so, but I doubt all the problems and prejudices have disappeared, and the way nearly half of those criticised by name for their handling of the Port murders have subsequently received promotions doesn't exactly fill me with encouragement about people learning lessons. Edited January 13, 2022 by HanoiVillan 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Let's hope so, but I doubt all the problems and prejudices have disappeared, It was procedural as well a and lot of "we can sort this out ourselves", if for example Barking called Scotland Yard on the first one and they sent a proper murder investigation team, just in case (As something was obviously off with it) it would have been solved in 24 hours I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) There's a theory that the decline in leaded fuel has caused a decline in serial killer cases. I suspect the days of the likes of Gacy or Bundy are in the past - the guys that were racking up huge body counts of non-sex workers. People are too connected now and the understanding and technique of investigating them has advanced enough that it needs incompetence to progress much. There will still be serial killers, but even more so than ever they'll be focused on the 'less dead' - killing sex workers. Harder to investigate, easier to kill and get away with it. And unfortunately there will always be those that fall into the madness of associating violence with sexual thrills, and that way lies murder. Edited January 13, 2022 by Chindie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Chindie said: There's a theory that the decline in leaded fuel has caused a decline in serial killer cases. I suspect the days of the likes of Gacy or Bundy are in the past - the guys that were racking up huge body counts of non-sex workers. People are too connected now and the understanding and technique of investigating them has advanced enough that it needs incompetence to progress much. There will still be serial killers, but even more so than ever they'll be focused on the 'less dead' - killing sex workers. Harder to investigate, easier to kill and get away with it. And unfortunately there will always be those that fall into the madness of associating violence with sexual thrills, and that way lies murder. Or they'll work in roles that allow murder to be covered up for longer - military, police, medicine, etc. Some of the stories that have come out of Afghanistan and Iraq sound pretty much like the dictionary definition of serial killing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Anyway, I guess we've all just demonstrated with our strong opinions on the subject why there's so much interest in serial killer documentaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Or they'll work in roles that allow murder to be covered up for longer - military, police, medicine, etc. Some of the stories that have come out of Afghanistan and Iraq sound pretty much like the dictionary definition of serial killing? I don't know much about the Afghanistan/Iraq situations you mention. But it's difficult to take account of military cases - ultimately you can't really say someone is a serial killer if their job says they may need to kill people. Of course if they're going rogue to bump off a few people, different story. Serial killers are interesting, unfortunately. The why, with its many facets, the how, the investigations, it's all interesting. What's important to recognise, though, is they're all pathetic. They aren't Hannibal Lector, they're mostly average at best intellectually (famously Gary Ridgeway, America's highest body count killer iirc, is a moron. He was just good at getting away with killing sex workers) and all of them are broken to some extent mentally, emotionally or socially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 13, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2022 The docu-drama 'Hunt for a Killer' covers a similar case in Sweden - serial killer on the loose for years thanks to police... let's say 'inefficiency'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 5 hours ago, sidcow said: I feel this way about how gangsters are often glorified as well. A guy I used to work with would buy all the books and go to paid "meets with" from various ex gangsters. Leaves me baffled, they are cashing in on the misery and violence they inflicted on people. Always looked after their dear old Mum though! Only killed their own. Good lads really. Everyone loved 'em! Cor blimey guvnor! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 13, 2022 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Xela said: Always looked after their dear old Mum though! Only killed their own. Good lads really. Everyone loved 'em! Cor blimey guvnor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 I think it just used to be easier to be a serial killer. No digital footprints, no CCTV, no real DNA stuff. I'd imagine if you had half a brain, you could have racked up huge numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Designer1 Posted January 13, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Xela said: I think it just used to be easier to be a serial killer. Oh yeah it definitely was... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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