omariqy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Interesting.In other news more people dying in Israel and Palestine. Israel have decided to demolish the family homes of some of the stabbers as a form of punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Interesting.In other news more people dying in Israel and Palestine. Israel have decided to demolish the family homes of some of the stabbers as a form of punishment.Pretty much the only reason Intifada 3.0 isn't already well under way (and I thought it would be by now) is the inability of Hamas and the PalestinianAuthority to reach a common position - i.e. "Let's start an Intifada".That's symptomatic of the broader Palestinian problem writ large - if they can't unite within they will never effectively challenge Israel without. That said it's probably a blessing in disguise because given the regional security environment they would take a pasting for zero positive outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 AWOL is er AWOL and senior leaders in ISIS are being bumped off.... coincidence? I don't think so how do you know senior members are being bumped off.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Interesting.In other news more people dying in Israel and Palestine. Israel have decided to demolish the family homes of some of the stabbers as a form of punishment.Pretty much the only reason Intifada 3.0 isn't already well under way (and I thought it would be by now) is the inability of Hamas and the PalestinianAuthority to reach a common position - i.e. "Let's start an Intifada".That's symptomatic of the broader Palestinian problem writ large - if they can't unite within they will never effectively challenge Israel without. That said it's probably a blessing in disguise because given the regional security environment they would take a pasting for zero positive outcomes. what do you think will happen here AWOL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached. Don't go to Mexico then. Happened to Kirsty Macoll.I feel really bad, but I lol'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Oh absolutely I am, which is why I'm so aware of Turkey's history. I agree there are plenty of reasons to go from that perspective but most people go for cheap sun. Given that Turkey thinks it's appropriate to tear gas survivors of a bomb then personally I'd rather look for another country to visit. As and when or if Turkey has a non Islamist, non terrorist supporting government and stops killing its own citizens then it might be somewhere I visit. Until then I'll avoid it as I've done with places like Israel which from a historical perspective I'd love to visit. Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached. I know you are, which is why I was curious about your previous statement I agree, though. And I've actually been there on your typical holiday, and wasn't too impressed anyway. Since then, the political direction has been rather scary indeed, although I'd might still risk a trip to Istanbul which I imagine would be quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Oh absolutely I am, which is why I'm so aware of Turkey's history. I agree there are plenty of reasons to go from that perspective but most people go for cheap sun.Given that Turkey thinks it's appropriate to tear gas survivors of a bomb then personally I'd rather look for another country to visit.As and when or if Turkey has a non Islamist, non terrorist supporting government and stops killing its own citizens then it might be somewhere I visit.Until then I'll avoid it as I've done with places like Israel which from a historical perspective I'd love to visit.Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached.I know you are, which is why I was curious about your previous statement [emoji4] I agree, though. And I've actually been there on your typical holiday, and wasn't too impressed anyway. Since then, the political direction has been rather scary indeed, although I'd might still risk a trip to Istanbul which I imagine would be quite interesting. You might bump into me. That's more scary than any political situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 So um..."The Drone Papers"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2015 Interesting.In other news more people dying in Israel and Palestine. Israel have decided to demolish the family homes of some of the stabbers as a form of punishment.Seems entirely proportionate.... If your Israeli.... I guess.If they use baseball bats then the appropriate response is a chemical weapon attack on the nearest school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 So um..."The Drone Papers"...90% of people killed they had no clue who they were. Pretty scary stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Drone warfare should be illegal, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2015 It seems 2 Turkish jets have shot down a drone in their airspace.... Can't have been any Kurds available.My money is on it being Russian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Awol Posted October 16, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2015 So um..."The Drone Papers"...90% of people killed they had no clue who they were. Pretty scary stuff.This is the problem. There is a place for drones and their specific capabilities but they are not a substitute for a proper strategic plan, unfortunately the Obama White House has done exactly that and thinks they are a panacea to swerve hard decisions. Worse, they genuinely think the whole thing is a success.The golden rule of counterinsurgency: don't do anything that creates more insurgents than it removes. By that measure drone strikes as currently employed are disastrous. I've read about the Pakistan context for this but I know that in Yemen the strikes have driven a generally USA neutral population into a strongly negative view of America, enabled a great recruiting environment for Al Qaeda (and more recently the Islamic State Green Brigade) and most importantly, killed a bucket load of innocent people. Those deaths enrage the population who use the same tech' we have (smartphones etc.) to rapidly disseminate the reality via social media. After these strikes the US immediately spreads a false and standard narrative claiming to have killed 'X' number of "enemy combatants", meanwhile whatsapp videos fly around showing bits of children being dug from the rubble of a house. The obvious dishonesty and lack of contrition only fuels the anger and resentment felt by the population, many of whom are then irretrievably lost to the other side. Maybe as a result you might get lucky and kill a senior terrorist commander, but he will be immediately replaced by a younger and often even more radical and capable subordinate - literally a 'dead man's shoes' promotion policy. So individual drone strikes may achieve a short lived tactical victory, but taken together the net effective is to enable strategic defeat. Unfortunately it's a self-licking lollipop where those wedded to the policy think the solution to more terrorists is simply more strikes, refusing to acknowledge the cause and effect - which by the way policy makers equally wish to avoid because that would mean admitting failure and having to rethink. Imagine apparently random airstrikes taking place at social events like weddings and funerals or market places across the UK, by an unseen, un-opposable but known actor, for years. It would breed a resentment and visceral hatred towards that actor which would be stamped into our DNA. So, are lethal strikes against unknown individuals selected by some targeting algorithm for looking a bit 'iffy' really a good idea? Answers on a postcard to Pennsylvania Ave. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Drone strikes are okay, if they are targeted and precise. But they tend not to be. My understanding is that they were developed for recon purposes but then the US started strapping a bomb to them to take advantage of opportune moments when they had identified combatants and couldn't feasibly get an aircraft there. It is widely accepted that there has to be a diplomatic solution in counter insurgency strategy, however, that seems an untenable option with IS in particular. So let's just drop bombs on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 anyone watched 'Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret By Dr Bill Warner? its on youtube and he has some interesting so called facts that people did not know about the battles islam thought many years ago and how it kind of ties in with today. its not anti islam proponganda, its an interesting watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Drones are a wonderful politician's weapon.It looks like you're doing something.You're not losing a face with a family if it's shot down.It's slightly more discriminating and a better camera platform than a Tomahawk.It doesn't need to militarily effective, it's a propaganda tool. Though it's more about looking good at home than demoralising the enemy. In other news.Medecins Sans Frontieres are pursuing war crimes charges against the Yanks for bombing their hospital.Clicky Edited October 16, 2015 by Xann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Obama will be able to dance around it and nothing will happen. At best, a mid level commander will fall on his sword, but they will get away with the crime, just like they always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 17, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2015 The thing with drones for me is that you shouldn't really be bombing anyone in a place where you're not involved in a war.Drone bombings and the whole idea of targeted assassination are oddly divorced from normal rules, laws and moralities by the looks of things though - or maybe that's just the people that are using them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Drones are a wonderful politician's weapon.It looks like you're doing something.You're not losing a face with a family if it's shot down.It's slightly more discriminating and a better camera platform than a Tomahawk.It doesn't need to militarily effective, it's a propaganda tool. Though it's more about looking good at home than demoralising the enemy. In other news.Medecins Sans Frontieres are pursuing war crimes charges against the Yanks for bombing their hospital.Clicky Unfortunatley nothing will come of it, Bush Blair and Nuttyenyoo should of been tried for war crimes also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 So russia has just been warming up so far in Syria, they will now go from 50 missions a day to 300.Poor Isis, soon the only safe place for them will be sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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