omariqy Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) I understand your point but what I am saying is that we don't know the facts. There may evidence in that document but we will never see it. I would think the threat of being rape is a suggestion that it may have happen given about 10% of the information in that document has been released for the public. But understand what you are saying. We don't know if it actually happened so it shouldn't be an accusation labelled at them, yet. Edited December 11, 2014 by omariqy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2014 No we don't know the facts and may never do so but there is no more reason to say that rape was committed by the US guards/army than there is to accuse them of chopping the heads of people. Neither thing has happened to our knowledge and what is more neither have even been rumoured to have happened, the only reference to rape that I've seen is the accusation they told detainees that their mothers would be raped. Now that in itself is horrid, but it isn't a suggestion that rape actually occurred. My point is, at the moment accusing them of rape seemingly has no foundation at all in anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2014 Much of the 6,000 page document will never see the light of day. I don't think we can dismiss anything given who we are dealing with. No perhaps not but that doesn't mean that people state things have happened when there is no evidence or even suggestion that they have. Not defending the actions of the US here by any stretch but I think it is important to keep sight of the facts, albeit as we know them. Abu Grayib. Rape. It happened. In 2004, Antonio Taguba, a major general in the U.S. Army, wrote in the Taguba Report that a detainee had been sodomized with "a chemical light and perhaps a broomstick."[30] In 2009, Taguba stated that there was photographic evidence of rape having occurred at Abu Ghraib.[31] An Abu Ghraib detainee told investigators that he heard an Iraqi teenage boy screaming, and saw an Army translator having sex with him, while a female soldier took pictures.[32] A witness identified the alleged rapist as an American-Egyptian who worked as a translator. In 2009, he was the subject of a civil court case in the United States.[31] Another photo shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner.[31] Other photos show interrogators sexually assaulting prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube, and a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.[31] Taguba supported United States President Barack Obama's decision not to release the photos, stating, "These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency."[31] Obama, who initially agreed to release the photographs, later changed his mind, as he believed their release would put troops in danger and "inflame anti-American public opinion".[31] In other instances of sexual abuse, soldiers were found to have raped female inmates, and senior U.S. officials admitted that rape had taken place at Abu Ghraib.[33][34] Some of the women who had been raped became pregnant, and in some cases, were later killed by their family members in what were thought to be instances of honor killing.[35] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2014 Much of the 6,000 page document will never see the light of day. I don't think we can dismiss anything given who we are dealing with. No perhaps not but that doesn't mean that people state things have happened when there is no evidence or even suggestion that they have. Not defending the actions of the US here by any stretch but I think it is important to keep sight of the facts, albeit as we know them. Abu Grayib. Rape. It happened. Just Google'd it and yes it appears it did. Wasn't aware of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2014 I added an edit with a quote and link, to make it clearer. Should have put it there to start with. Sorry. Whichever, it's absolutely appaling, disgraceful, abhorrent, shameful. People should be prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2014 Cheers and a belated thanks, never slow to admit when I'm wrong and I'm clearly wrong on this one. I completely agree regarding prosecutions, no doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Do we think it will happen though? Am I right in thinking Bush was aware of all of this when it was happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'm not entirely convinced Bush knew or knows what day it is most the time let alone the complexities of what was happening a world away. And of course there won't be prosecutions, they can't even get their Police in order although that said neither can we so a good job this government will remove the problem by getting rid of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Do we think it will happen though? Am I right in thinking Bush was aware of all of this when it was happening? If Bush didn't, Cheney and Rumsfeld did. Bush was their monkey, Cheney was the man in charge, and Rumsfeld was the hands-on shot caller for what happened in that prison. The orders came from Rumsfeld. There is a reason non of these men have left the United States since 2008. They know they are guilty of crimes in direct violation of the Geneva Convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 11, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'm not entirely convinced Bush knew or knows what day it is most the time let alone the complexities of what was happening a world away. And of course there won't be prosecutions, they can't even get their Police in order although that said neither can we so a good job this government will remove the problem by getting rid of them. In my Independent newspaper today, there's a timeline of who knew what, when. It's not on the internet version that I can see, but it says that: "President Bush stated in his autobiography that he discussed the programme, including the use of enhanced techniques, with then CIA director George Tenet in 2002, prior to application of the techniques on Abu Zubaydah, and personally approved them. A memoir by the former Acting CIA General Counsel John Rizzo disputes this. John Brennan, former Dep. Director of the CIA, now Director of the CIA was among those who were sent an update on 26 July 2002, in which CIA officers were said to be involved in “sound disorientation techniques,” “sense of time deprivation,” limited light, cold temperatures”, and sleep deprivation. The plan was circulated to senior CIA officers. Condoleeza Rice, Former Nat. Security Advisor said on 31 July, 2002, "in balancing the application of the CIA’s interrogation techniques against the possible loss of American lives, she would not object to the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques if the Attorney General determined them to be legal". George Tenet Former Dir. of CIA Central Intelligence, on January 2003, in response to the death of CIA detainee Gul Rahman and the use of a gun and a drill in the CIA interrogations, DCI Tenet signed the first formal interrogation and confinement guidelines for the programme. Former Sec. of Defence Donald Rumsfeld was made aware of the CIA interrogation programme prior to recertification of the covert action for the first time in a 25-minute briefing on 16 September, 2003. It was Condoleezza Rice who ordered his briefing. Former Sec. of State Colin Powell: A CIA email dated 31 July, 2003 states: “The [White House] is extremely concerned [secretary of State] Powell would blow his stack if he were to be briefed on what’s been going on.” He was formally briefed for the first time on 16 September that year. it seems highly unlikely that Bush and Blair didn't know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismail-villa Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Felt uncomfortable to read what has happened to these people. But it's almost certain that nothing is likely to happen. Such a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Not an Arab country but still http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30491435Pakistan Taliban kill 100 in assault on Peshawar school 11 minutes ago From the section Asia Pakistani troops have been helping evacuate children from the school At least 100 people, 80 of them children, have been killed in a Taliban assault on an army-run school in Peshawar, Pakistani officials say. Five or six militants wearing security uniforms entered the school, officials said. Gunfire and explosions were heard as security forces surrounded the area. The army says most of the school's 500 students have been evacuated. It is not clear how many are being held hostage. A Taliban spokesman says the assault is in response to army operations. Hundreds of Taliban fighters are thought to have died in a recent military offensive in North Waziristan and the nearby Khyber area. A school worker and a student interviewed by the local Geo TV station said the attackers had entered the Army Public School's auditorium, where a military team was conducting first-aid training for students. Troops have sealed off the area around the school The military operation against the militants is still underway Local hospitals have been treating the injured Mudassir Awan, a worker at the school, said he saw six or seven attackers. "As soon as the firing started, we ran to our classrooms," he said. "They were entering every class and they were killing the children." Locals said they also said they heard screams of students and teachers. It's unclear excatly how Taliban militants got into the military-run facility. Ambulances have been carrying the injured to a nearby hospital. A helicopter is also in the area. The dead are said to include teachers, as well as a paramilitary soldier. The attack started at 10 am local time (0500 GMT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I just read this. Bursting into a school and opening fire on children is a low I did not think these animals would stoop too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted December 16, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 16, 2014 What could go wrong in your mind to do something like that. Felt sick just reading about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It is a despicable act. Brings a tear to the eye when you think about those poor children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Utterly horrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 16, 2014 Its another Beslan by the look of it, cowards, utter cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I don't normally bother with this thread but **** me I just read about it online, they really didn't mess about did they. 126 dead over 100 of them kids, they set a teacher on fire and forced the kids to watch, sent in suicide bombers and then shot the kids that survived thats pretty **** shocking stuff isn't it, crazy world we live in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Animals.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Killing Muslim children in the name of Allah. What brave and intrepid warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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