MakemineVanilla Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 But having made such a call you do have the problem of having made the case that it is legitimate for any invader to displace any colonist guilty of displacing indigenous peoples. How exactly have I done that? I thought the quote below suggested that one colonialist displacing another was less serious. Except that the Mexicans were colonists themselves, having already defeated the Aztecs and subjugated the Mestizo masses. Sorry if I misconstrued your meaning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Interesting to see if these sways public opinion at all. Three men have been caught on camera putting together a rocket to fire into Israel immediately before the ceasefire. Didn't click on the link, but if it was done before the ceasefire, it's irrelevant. It'd be newsworthy if they did it after the ceasefire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I wouldn't call it irrelevant for two reasons. Firstly they set up the rocket 24 hours in advance then remotely detonated it right before the ceasefire, which for me looks like they're deliberately attacking right before the ceasefire kicks in to goad Israel in to retaliating to violate the ceasefire. Secondly it's proof of Hamas firing rockets from civilian areas, which they keep denying and insisting is Zionist propaganda. Not only do they fire from civilian areas, the scumbags do it remotely to make sure they're well out of harm's way if there is a retaliatory strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 5, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2014 I wouldn't call it irrelevant for two reasons. Firstly they set up the rocket 24 hours in advance then remotely detonated it right before the ceasefire, which for me looks like they're deliberately attacking right before the ceasefire kicks in to goad Israel in to retaliating to violate the ceasefire. Secondly it's proof of Hamas firing rockets from civilian areas, which they keep denying and insisting is Zionist propaganda. Not only do they fire from civilian areas, the scumbags do it remotely to make sure they're well out of harm's way if there is a retaliatory strike.Which in turn makes Israel's flattening of said civilian areas even more indefensible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 It is indefensible from Israel, but at the same time I think it's very clear that Hamas know what they're doing. They can't win with bullets, so they're trying to win with PR by sacrificing Palestinian's citizens, they know damn well what the result of these actions will be, they want it to happen. I'm not saying Israel are in the right here, there are murderers on both sides. That's not exactly how the media are portraying it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 5, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2014 It is indefensible from Israel, but at the same time I think it's very clear that Hamas know what they're doing. They can't win with bullets, so they're trying to win with PR by sacrificing Palestinian's citizens, they know damn well what the result of these actions will be, they want it to happen. I'm not saying Israel are in the right here, there are murderers on both sides. That's not exactly how the media are portraying it though.Thats exactly how its being told in the media. Israel, wrong, Hamas, wrong, palestinian civilians innocent and as usual the innocent are the ones that suffer. Not sure which media you're reading but its definitely different to mine if you find a different story to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 A US major-general has been killed in an attack by a man in Afghan military uniform at a British-run military academy near Kabul, US officials say. Two British soldiers were among the wounded, along with several Americans, a German general and an Afghan general. BBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Peshmerga counter offensive appears to have been pretty successful in driving IS back in three sectors, including the Mosul dam. Iraqi and Iranian air have got stuck into IS supply lines and the US and Europeans are apparently now willing to provide advanced weapons and "other" resources to the Kerds. Could be that a few UK and JSOC ninjas deployed in an adviserary capacity. IS have a HD hour long montage out there of all their head chopping antics. The amount of cowardly barbarism you can see, with hard act Chechens taking out young boys and sticking 6 or 7 9mm rounds in their heads with silenced pistols suggests they should come to a pretty sticky end. Fact is though, they only have around 12k boots on the ground and they have probed and stretched the Peshmerga big time, not to mention rolling over the Iraqi Army. Scum who can shoot it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 5, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2014 Warsi has resigned as she no longer can support the govt on Gaza. Don't really like her but fair play. My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 5, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2014 Interesting to see if these sways public opinion at all. Three men have been caught on camera putting together a rocket to fire into Israel immediately before the ceasefire. Meanwhile Israel launched raids immediately prior to the ceasefire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) It is indefensible from Israel, but at the same time I think it's very clear that Hamas know what they're doing. They can't win with bullets, so they're trying to win with PR by sacrificing Palestinian's citizens, they know damn well what the result of these actions will be, they want it to happen. I'm not saying Israel are in the right here, there are murderers on both sides. That's not exactly how the media are portraying it though. Thats exactly how its being told in the media. Israel, wrong, Hamas, wrong, palestinian civilians innocent and as usual the innocent are the ones that suffer. Not sure which media you're reading but its definitely different to mine if you find a different story to that Agreed. I haven't found one media source that has been in any way supportive of Hamas, and they shouldn't. Hamas is the worst thing to happen to Gaza since Israel. There needs to be a West Bank-Gaza unity government, and quick. Hamas needs to be forced to disarm, Israel needs to agree to a complete halt to hostilities, a halt to settlements and lift the blockade. As it stands now, even if they stop the bombing and pull out of Gaza entirely, there is a humanitarian nightmare just beginning to erupt. The IDF destroyed the one power plant that Gaza had. No lights at night. Bombed out hospitals operating on generators. Total nightmare. What's fascinating to me is that I've not heard a peep from Jordan or Saudia Arabia, or any of the Gulf states. The outcry seems to be coming from the West. Edited August 5, 2014 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Might just be the western media aren't reporting it ... Jordan's parliament were quite vocal in condemning Israel's brutality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Yeah, probably. Anyway, most Americans probably think Jordan is a basketball player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Well the Saudis were quietly supporting Israel so I wouldn't expect to hear a peep out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Saudi has drafted in some of the Pakistani and Egyptian army to protect its borders from ISIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 IS(IS) forces now launching attacks inside Lebanon. Saudi have chucked $1 billion at the French (still on the 'good infidel' list for their enthusiasm to bomb Assad) who will now ship the equivalent in arms to the Leb Gov to fight back. That's before Hezbollah roll up to northern Leb from their bases in the South. This is all getting a little bit mental and the only positive (as Ads notes) is the Kurds getting stuck in again in northern Iraq after being caught off balance by the IS blitzkrieg a few days ago. As others have mentioned, the IS staff level is highly sophisticated and executing a very well designed campaign plan that has been many months in the making. I'd bet there are some very well conventionally trained ex Saddam folks in there who cut their teeth over a decade fighting the Americans in Iraq. Just for interest google a map of the region and note the size of the geographical area IS forces are now operating in. It's staggering. This estimate of 10-15,000 fighters is clearly rubbish, OR many other groups are re-badging and getting on board for some Caliphate action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 That is what I find so impressive and worrying. The estimates suggest that they effectively have a division size force in the field, yet they're able to take and hold large areas of Iraq and Syria, probe the Kurds and across the north (perhaps securing their rear?), while launching attacks in Baghdad and now as you say, the Lebanon? How good can these Chechen commanders be? There will be some folk in Jordan and the Kingdom getting a little twitchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I wouldn't rule out the power of fear in keeping the locals subdued. Slaughtering innocent people tends to keep opposition quiet, until they get their shit together at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 How good can these Ex Syrian and Iraqi army regular commanders be?. Pretty good, though don't over estimate their opposition. Much as I deplore what the IDF have been doing in Gaza, if IS ops move towards the Golan Heights they will get smashed. Likewise if they try conventional tactics against Jordanian forces, though they are not at the IDF's standards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) it isn't about the tunnels Link Israel’s justifications for its assault on Gaza have shifted more than once since Operation ‘Brother’s Keeper’ was launched on 12 June, supposedly in response to the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. The rockets ‘raining down terror’ on Israel (they have so far killed three people, giving them a kill rate of 0.1 per cent) were the reason given for the launch of operation ‘Protective Edge’ on 8 July; the ground invasion of Gaza on 17 July was said to be aimed at destroying a series of tunnels leading into Israel. The BBC, ever mindful of the approved Israeli lexicon, refers to them as ‘attack tunnels’. They are, we are told, designed to penetrate Israel and kidnap Israelis. In 2006 Gilad Shalit, a soldier, was captured and held as a prisoner of war. He was released in exchange for 1027 Palestinian prisoners, many of whom were rounded up again during Operation ‘Brother’s Keeper’. No civilian has ever been abducted through the tunnels. Their primary purpose is economic, a response to Israel’s seven-year siege of Gaza. The tunnels along the Egyptian border weren’t built by Hamas: it merely taxes the goods being moved through by the entrepreneurs that dig and run them. Israel talks of a ‘terrorist organisation’ that ‘deliberately embeds its terrorist infrastructure inside civilian neighbourhoods’. In fact a system of loosely regulated capitalism governs the tunnel industry. If you live near the border you are likely to go into the tunnelling business because there’s nothing else to do. Since the invasion, the tunnels have been used to attack Israel. Still, no civilian has been killed. Of the 59 Israelis killed in total, 56 have been soldiers, most of them in Gaza. More than 1800 Palestinians have been killed so far, 80 per cent of them civilians. If the purpose of Israel’s operation is to destroy the tunnels, why has it cost more than 1800 Palestinian lives? There were thought to be at least 1000 tunnels between Egypt and Gaza, which the Egyptian regime – not known for its regard for human life – destroyed without killing anyone. There seem to have been no more than forty tunnels leading into Israel and the operation to destroy them has already taken two weeks. The operation is not about the tunnels, and never has been. Just as it was not about the kidnapped boys or the ineffectual rockets. The tunnel operation will wrap up soon, so a new reason to continue the bloodshed will be needed. The frontrunner at the moment is ‘disarmament’. Edited August 6, 2014 by blandy link was inop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts