Awol Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Go in there fast and give 'em hell, ...you make it sound like a computer game. Back in the real world...It is called strategic raiding, actual military doctrine and very much "the real world".Is that like 'collateral damage' for blown up innocents? Or 'strategic withdrawal' for we've **** up again? Are you trying to make some kind of point? If so it's too well hidden for me to spot I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Go in there fast and give 'em hell, ...you make it sound like a computer game. Back in the real world...It is called strategic raiding, actual military doctrine and very much "the real world".Is that like 'collateral damage' for blown up innocents? Or 'strategic withdrawal' for we've **** up again?Are you trying to make some kind of point? If so it's too well hidden for me to spot I'm afraid.Yeah, your idea for how we should have dealt with Afghanistan sucks. It wouldn't achieve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) Turkey have to intervene too not just Iran. There will be sectarian slaughter if these terrorists aren't stopped quickly. Enough is enough, Turkey have a massive modern well organised army and an attack from the north would bring a swift end to this conflict. Edited June 14, 2014 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 14, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2014 It's already started. What a royal mess the whole region is, there just isn't any solution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Turkey hasn't done anything yet. They need to accept their inaction in the region cannot go on any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 14, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 14, 2014 Erdogan's Turkey is too busy fighting it's own people and destroying Ataturk's secular ideal. They're a nation pointing inwards, not outwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Go in there fast and give 'em hell, ...you make it sound like a computer game. Back in the real world...It is called strategic raiding, actual military doctrine and very much "the real world".Is that like 'collateral damage' for blown up innocents? Or 'strategic withdrawal' for we've **** up again?Are you trying to make some kind of point? If so it's too well hidden for me to spot I'm afraid.Yeah, your idea for how we should have dealt with Afghanistan sucks. Shame, I really value your opinion on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Enough is enough, Turkey have a massive modern well organised army and an attack from the north would bring a swift end to this conflict. Rebuild the Ottoman Empire, eh? Not the worst idea I've heard by a long way (although the Kurds may have a thing or two to say about it). I think the best option is to accept the regions borders are going to change in the medium term and the locals are the one's to decide them. Yes intervene where our vital interests are threatened (for example Qatar supplying 25%+ of our gas) but other than that, crack on with the Islamic equivalent of the European Reformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Good to see that swivel eyed zealot Blair giving his analysis on Sky: the current insurgency in Iraq has come about because the west failed to invade Syria (without mentioning he was backing the same side as ISIS in Syria)... A lying, deluded and screaming lunatic to be sure, but a consistent one at least. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Blair, Middle East Peace Envoy still makes me chuckle even now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Good to see that swivel eyed zealot Blair giving his analysis on Sky: the current insurgency in Iraq has come about because the west failed to invade Syria (without mentioning he was backing the same side as ISIS in Syria)... A lying, deluded and screaming lunatic to be sure, but a consistent one at least. I'm delighted to see someone call Blair a zealot. I've just been watching 'The Big Question' about our toleration of intolerance... what a bunch of morons. The problem with all these discussons, particularly when discussing the middle east, is the elephant in the room, which noone dare mention... RELIGION. As an atheist, it will come as no surprise that I blame the above problems on the ALL people who believe in this stone age crap. This is not one of those endlessly repetitive religious threads we've seen from time to time... but when applied to the modern, and much smaller, world we now inhabit, these beliefs can clearly be seen for the dangerous rubbish they truly are. The difference between me and most of my fellow secularists, is that I have now taken to immediately insulting religious belief, and its adherents, the moment I encounter either. This is not because I am a naturally ill mannered fellow, but because I feel it incumbent upon me to espouse the rational point of view on every occasion. After all, there is 'Rational' and there is 'Religion'... and the two are totally incompatible. In short, insulting these uneducated morons at every opportunity, should be a secular duty. For this reason, I will doubtless not last long on this site. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelc Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Religion causes more problems than anything else . The irony . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) I'm not his biggest fan but I agree with Blair on this. I think blaming religion as well is a bit simplistic as well. It's often much more complex than that. Militant atheists who insist on belittling everything and everyone related to religion don't help matters at all - in my book they're not much better than religious fundamentalists. And obviously when you blame all the problems in a country on just one thing you completely miss the more deep-seated issues. Edited June 15, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 If it wasn't for religion there would be no power crazy mental cases in the world and we'd all be happily skipping through the meadow hand in hand sharing resources without borders. If it wasn't for religion there is no way the borders of nations as currently defined in the middle east would be contentious or the oil so poorly managed as a shared resource. We'd have avoided two world wars as well. Yep, problem solved. Why had we not thought of this earlier? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) I'm not his biggest fan but I agree with Blair on this. I think blaming religion as well is a bit simplistic as well. It's often much more complex than that. Militant atheists who insist on belittling everything and everyone related to religion don't help matters at all - in my book they're not much better than religious fundamentalists. And obviously when you blame all the problems in a country on just one thing you completely miss the more deep-seated issues. Please, do tell us... what are these "complex" and "deep seated issues"... ... and did you also agree with Blair when he said he would bring democracy to Iraq? One last thing... 'simple' is what nature's great truths have usually turned out to be. EDIT: I forgot, can you name a single militant atheist? I believe 'militant' is usually related to the use of force. However the list of militant morons who believe in god is positively endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless etc... Edited June 15, 2014 by A.J.Rimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 15, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2014 The Bliar fable should correctly be interpreted asIts not my fault the people who came after us didn't kill enough brown people 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) I'm not his biggest fan but I agree with Blair on this. I think blaming religion as well is a bit simplistic as well. It's often much more complex than that. Militant atheists who insist on belittling everything and everyone related to religion don't help matters at all - in my book they're not much better than religious fundamentalists. And obviously when you blame all the problems in a country on just one thing you completely miss the more deep-seated issues. Please, do tell us... what are these "complex" and "deep seated issues"... ... and did you also agree with Blair when he said he would bring democracy to Iraq? One last thing... 'simple' is what nature's great truths have usually turned out to be. EDIT: I forgot, can you name a single militant atheist? I believe 'militant' is usually related to the use of force. However the list of militant morons who believe in god is positively endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless endless etc... A lot of it's about politics, resources and land, same with most "religious" conflicts. A lot of the time religion is just the tool certain leaders use to galvanise people to support their cause. If it wasn't that it would be something else (and it often is). What, do you think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would just suddenly disappear if there were no religious differences? I don't think getting rid of Saddam was wrong but I felt the post-conflict situation could've been handled a lot better. Militant as in aggressive. Like with some religious people, there are those that adopt a live and let live attitude and those that are insistent on condemning anyone that doesn't fall in line with their own views. Atheists who constantly belittle religious people for their beliefs are no different to the religious fundamentalists who preach about how anyone who doesn't believe in God is going to hell. They both go to extremes and the world could do without both of those kinds of attitudes. Also, some of the world's worst mass murderers have been atheists who have actively caused the deaths of millions because they happened to be religious and thus were less likely to accept the leader's cult of personality - Stalin was probably the worst for this. Not that I'm deluded enough to think that their religious (or lack of) beliefs had anything to do with that, but there seems to be this perception that there are no examples in history of religious people being persecuted by atheists. Edited June 15, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Why cant they just get along ?? Why do they have to kill eachother ?? Why ? why ? why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Politics is word that can cover pretty much everything... even football. As for resources and land, everywhere one looks both of these exist in abundance, but in recent times it’s rare for conflict to break out for their control. The thinking world has realised, through bitter experience, there are better way of resolving such issues. Even in the Middle East, I struggle to remember any wars aimed at resource control, other than those begun by Saddam Hussein. As for the Israeli-Palestine conflict: ‘Yes’, I do believe this would not have occurred without the religious differences. Christians, let’s not forget them, took great pleasure slaughtering Jews for over 1,000 years; but they followed their most recent Holocaust, by giving the Jews their own state. Your idea that war would still exist in the lands we now call Israel were it all controlled by Muslims, is frankly laughable. Atheists are entirely different to our religious bretheren. Secular thought is based upon reason... religion is the antithesis of reason. There are more stars in this universe than there are grains of sand on the earth... just imagine how many planets there are... yet the ‘bretheren’ believe each and every one of them is in constant telepathic contact with the creator of all this. It’s not that this idea is laughable, arrogant, or even wicked... the real worry is how dangerous it is. If you don’t believe me, just look today's news. No, we have given this filth and its adherents air time for much too long, and in more ignorant times, when they had power, they invariably used it to kill those who disagreed with them. Please tell me, what is extreme about my views? I believe that 2 + 2 = 4, I believe our roundish world goes round the sun, and I believe we evolved from more simple forms. ‘Extreme’ is thinking some Jewish carpenter was the son of god, or some murderous Arab warlord was the divine messenger, or that Noah marched all the animals into the arc before the big flood... now that is ‘Extreme’... and anyone who believes such rubbish is an extremist. As for Stalin, probably the greatest mass murderer in history, like all his fellow communists, he murdered to repress his political opponents... not in the name of atheism. Sorry to be so long winded, but I hope I covered all your points. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 As bad as it sounds I say leave them to it. Religion is like drink driving, do it if you want but you and your family are at an increased risk of been hurt or killed. It is a decision by them alone to follow false prophets in the face of fact and it is their decisions alone that lead to the atrocities from that region on a daily basis. If you brainwash your children into believing lies no good will ever come of it for you or your kids. Also, why do we report it constantly ? You have a population that believes in the make believe and pretend friends, yet they all have guns and bombs, what do normal people think is going to happen. If we all look away for 2 years and then go back, they are not going to all watching re-runs of the great british bake off and teaching evolution to the kids ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts