TRS-T Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm still not sure how revered he is in Argentina compared to Diego as he has lived overseas for almost all of his life The Argentinians don't love him because he plays better for Barcelona than he does for Argentina. They also think he is a bit Spanish/Catalan considering he has lived there since the age of 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted March 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think the reason why the Premier League is so highly thought of is purely the pace at which we play at. The actual standard of football is pretty poor to be honest. This year has been the worst i've seen. Arsenal getting beat 8-1 (something like that) by Man UTD, then Man UTD losing 6-1 (something like that) to City. It's been a poor season, the football played by the lower clubs has been shite, Villa included. I think the Premier League is the most entertaining, but it's not the best on purely footballing reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2012 How would he fancy Stoke on a freezing pissy night in December....? No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no you did not just say that in all seriousness did you? Very much THIS! I was looking for a smiley in the original post to indicate it was a joke, but I don't think it was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 People need to stop with the idea that the Spanish teams outside the top 4 are Championship standard. The 8th place English is no better than, the 8th Spanish team, same for 12th, 15th etc. How bad have AVFC been this season. In my opinion the worst I have seen (95 to present) yet we are only 6 points from Europa League chasing Liverpool was only 5 days since Bilbao went Old Trafford adn gave a lesson in football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 La Liga is miles better than the Premier League. The Premier League is ranked as the no.1 league in Europe according to the UEFA co-efficient. La Liga is no.2 Bundesliga is no.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2012 also below the top 4/5 in Spain, you essentially have a bunch of low level Championship standard teams, it is nowhere near as competitive as the PL for example. Utter rubbish, imo of course. You're thinking of Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 People need to stop with the idea that the Spanish teams outside the top 4 are Championship standard. The 8th place English is no better than, the 8th Spanish team, same for 12th, 15th etc. How bad have AVFC been this season. In my opinion the worst I have seen (95 to present) yet we are only 6 points from Europa League chasing Liverpool was only 5 days since Bilbao went Old Trafford adn gave a lesson in football I know this is my point, the teams outside the top 4 are pretty good in Spain, as we saw with Athletic Bilbao. I still think if Bilbao and Manchester played eachother 6 times in a row, Manchester would come out top but you saw with that result that there are many good teams in the primera liga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 He's good but could he do it on a [insert unfavourable weather] night in [insert winter month] at [insert generic, unfashionable and preferably northern premiership club known for commonly adopting an overly physical approach] though? has to be the most trotted out, tiresome, boring, tedious and hideously god awful cliché around. Since when did a player have to perform against a mid table premiership side in the rain to prove himself? Since a couple of years ago when Andy Gray or someone who never watches football outside of the premiership invented the phrase I guess. And yes, yes he would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 12, 2012 Watch him for Argentina and he has nowhere near the influence on a game because he isn't given the freedom to do it. He has to make up for the failings of others. Like I said, for me, for Messi to be the greatest, he would have to repeat what he is done in a different League. I see what you are saying but I don't agree and here is an example why incapsulated in one little ginger chap from Oldham Paul Scholes. Go and take a look at what his fellow pro's say about Paul Scholes, some of the most notable names in the European game who have played with or against him consider him to be a true great. Some consider him to be one of the best English players of all time. Yet look at his career for England, he never pulled the strings for the England side and was rarely given the chance to try. We played to other strengths, we played him out of position and generally failed to make the most out of the most talented player we had. Does any of that make Scholes a less talented player? Or does it say more about the England teams he played in and the managers that picked them? Are all those from within the game wrong about Paul Scholes? I don't think they were, I think he is probably the finnest English player of his generation and perhaps one of the best we have ever produced. I don't accept that he can't be deemed to be that because a succession of England managers failed to use him correctly or get the best from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 He's good but could he do it on a [insert unfavourable weather] night in [insert winter month] at [insert generic, unfashionable and preferably northern premiership club known for commonly adopting an overly physical approach] though? has to be the most trotted out, tiresome, boring, tedious and hideously god awful cliché around. Since when did a player have to perform against a mid table premiership side in the rain to prove himself? Since a couple of years ago when Andy Gray or someone who never watches football outside of the premiership invented the phrase I guess. And yes, yes he would Very true. Also people need to remember from November to February Spain is also very cold. I was there in 2008/09 so I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 12, 2012 He's good but could he do it on a [insert unfavourable weather] night in [insert winter month] at [insert generic, unfashionable and preferably northern premiership club known for commonly adopting an overly physical approach] though? has to be the most trotted out, tiresome, boring, tedious and hideously god awful cliché around. Since when did a player have to perform against a mid table premiership side in the rain to prove himself? Since a couple of years ago when Andy Gray or someone who never watches football outside of the premiership invented the phrase I guess. And yes, yes he would You smashed it! Oh...am I allowed to say that in relation to post containing the name Andy Gray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 How would he fancy Stoke on a freezing pissy night in December....? No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no you did not just say that in all seriousness did you? Very much THIS! I was looking for a smiley in the original post to indicate it was a joke, but I don't think it was! I stand by my comments, the history of football in this country is littered with the corpses of fancy-dan foreigners with big reputations that haven't fancied the game over here. All I'm trying to say I suppose is that whilst he's playing in a side with Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Mascherano, Villa, Fabregas and Sanchez he's going to look a bit tasty and have the platform to perform as well as he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Messi is an outstanding footballer.... is he the best ever..... for me no. When you play week in week out with probably 4 of the other top 10 best players in the world, it probably helps. Completely irrelevant when you actually sit down and take the time to watch him play. His strength, his movement, the tricks, the goals, the slips. I mean shit, for 5'6" he's even fairly decent in the air. Outstanding doesn't come close for me. I think the majority of people who don't believe him to be "The Best Ever" (which is in reality impossible to nail down) are in denial. They can't comprehend the fact that he's alive and playing now and they can watch him every week if they wish to. But it's true, it's the luck of the draw. Go enjoy. You do get the feeling that the people who can't admire his brilliance for all it's worth are the people who just simply read that he's scored goals at the weekend before watching 2/3 games in the Champions League against English sides. Because we've never seen goalscoring rates like it in England and don't actually watch him play at all regularly = standard must be shit, a lot to do with people around him etc.. as for the line about cold night in Stoke. I think that's completely fair. I mean could Lionel Messi really give Ryan Shawcross the drop of the shoulder or could he get the ball and put it through the legs of Richard Stearman. I mean, imagine him pulling away to the right and Stephen Warnock coming over to close him down, what he would do with the ball? Kick it out of play and tell the lads to regroup I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I stand by my comments, the history of football in this country is littered with the corpses of fancy-dan foreigners with big reputations that haven't fancied the game over here How many of thoise fancy dan foreigners have won 3 consecutive Ballon D'ors? Or scored 55 goals by March? I think that's completely fair. I mean could Lionel Messi really give Ryan Shawcross the drop of the shoulder or could he get the ball and put it through the legs of Richard Stearman I think Gary Caldwell would have him in his pocket TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted March 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 12, 2012 All I'm trying to say I suppose is that whilst he's playing in a side with Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Mascherano, Villa, Fabregas and Sanchez he's going to look a bit tasty and have the platform to perform as well as he does. Well you better scrub Pele from the list of the greats then because the Brazil sides he played in were packed with some superb players. Oh and you can forget about Maradona as well because although he was the leading light it wasn't a one man team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 How would he fancy Stoke on a freezing pissy night in December....? No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no you did not just say that in all seriousness did you? Very much THIS! I was looking for a smiley in the original post to indicate it was a joke, but I don't think it was! I stand by my comments, the history of football in this country is littered with the corpses of fancy-dan foreigners with big reputations that haven't fancied the game over here. All I'm trying to say I suppose is that whilst he's playing in a side with Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Mascherano, Villa, Fabregas and Sanchez he's going to look a bit tasty and have the platform to perform as well as he does. Yes but do you not realise he is the focal point of the team and the man they look to and give the ball to at every opportunity in order for the team to create and well be at it's best. He is a step above all of his team mates and is the reason why this Barcelona team is looked upon as one of the greatest. Oh and as for your top comment, the English Prem is changing and has been for a while. Just look at the best players in the top teams. Wayne Rooney David Silva Juan Mata Robin Van Persie Luka Modric Luis Suarez Technically, they are all brilliant players. The idea that Lionel Messi would struggle is an embarrassing and quite extra-ordinary view IMO. He is the best player in the world, it's not just any player is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 12, 2012 It's the age-old specious criticism people try to throw at excellence. All the while completely ignoring the fact that excellence tends to find itself at the top of the sport surrounded by the best. Those asking for Messi to be surrounded by anything other than 'the other best players in the world' should ask themselves why even in that company; even amongst Xavi, Iniesta, Villa & Pedro; Messi still stands head and shoulders above those guys. Does that not in and of itself kind of show that these counter-arguments are really people just arguing for the sake of arguing, safe in the knowledge that their hypothetical scenario will never play out and they can be happy that they've never been proven wrong. Ho hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 It's the age-old specious criticism people try to throw at excellence. All the while completely ignoring the fact that excellence tends to find itself at the top of the sport surrounded by the best. Those asking for Messi to be surrounded by anything other than 'the other best players in the world' should ask themselves why even in that company; even amongst Xavi, Iniesta, Villa & Pedro; Messi still stands head and shoulders above those guys. Does that not in and of itself kind of show that these counter-arguments are really people just arrguing for the sake of arguing, safe in the knowledge that their hypothetical scenario will never play out and they can be happy that they've never been proven wrong. Ho hum. Hit the nail on the head. Was just gonna post something similar. Even surrounded by these other top world class players, he still stands out from the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Part of me just wants Messi to play well, win the world cup in 2014 and so the one last thing people can throw at him goes out of the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwood Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Messi would be the best player in the world, if he could do this, like Bärkroth... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2012/mar/12/football-assist-of-the-season-video?newsfeed=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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