Papillon Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Again with the stupid statistics, when all possible evidence in terms of actually watching the game points to the opposite. A statistical "successful" pass is not automatically a good pass, you cannot make up a team with statistical analysis. This is football, not baseball or basketball where those things are much easier to comprehend. Most of us also agree that our attacking line is the best asset we have, and that our midfield and defensive units are weaker in every way you compare it. Saying that, if his passing/crossing is world-class - then the important statistics (assists) would show that he is in fact the best crosser in the league. Hitting our player with a cross is not the same as hitting our player who has the chance to score a goal inside the box, thus a "good" pass in your view could be a 10 yard pass to a player that is badly positioned (but open) inside the box. What if we have another player positioned inside the box and with a good chance of scoring, only for Bannan to avoid him since the pass he would have to make was more difficult? That is my impression of the player, that he is afraid to carry the ball forward and that he often lumps the ball to the nearest player and by that avoids the pressure of creating the attack. The ball goes to a player that is open, but then he is tackled within a second. Bannan goes free with a "successful" pass in the stats chart and so on. Same with his shooting, how many times have we seen him whack a crazy awful shot to row Z just to finish the attack? What is he afraid of? Getting tackled or causing the other team to counter us when the ball is stolen from him? If he was a world-class in terms of passing and set-pieces, well then he would have a lot of assists to his name. Simple as that. Being a chicken shit passer of the ball might hike you up on the boards, but it also make you play with the reserves instead of the big boys. Edited July 8, 2013 by Papillon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 So, simple answer. Are you now back tracking from your claim that he was the best crosser of the ball in the league last season? . When I made that claim, and when the website article I referenced in my signature line made that claim, it was based on Bannan's performances up to January. After that the season continued and Bannan didn't play much. So my answer is, I won't back track on the claim I made, but I wouldn't now repeat that claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 8, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2013 You repeated it today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 8, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2013 I do and did suggest he had world class aspects to his game (his best in Premier League crossing was evidence for this) and that he had world class potential. I will say that last season his crossing was world class. You cannot perform any better than best in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) You repeated it today. Statistically his crossing was best in the league. "His best in the league crossing" refers to the statistics, and that remains true. His crossing was best in the Premier League. You then asked me if I still thought he was the best crosser in the Premier League. My interpretation of the statistics now take account of the fact we only have half a season worth of data, so my answer is no, I don't think Bannan is the best crosser, even though statistically his crossing was the best in the league last season. As I said, if I had one cross, I'd probably choose Baines or Mata. If Bannan had played more, and kept his performance up at the same level, I might be here saying I'd want Bannan to take that cross. Edited July 8, 2013 by Con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 8, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2013 You repeated it today. Statistically his crossing was best in the league. "His best in the league crossing" refers to the statistics, and that remains true. His crossing was best in the Premier League. You then asked me if I still thought he was the best crosser in the Premier League. My interpretation of the statistics now take account of the fact we only have half a season worth of data, so my answer is no, I don't think Bannan is the best crosser, even though statistically his crossing was the best in the league last season. As I said, if I had one cross, I'd probably choose Baines or Mata. If Bannan had played more, and kept his performance up at the same level, I might be here saying I'd want Bannan to take that cross. I do and did suggest he had world class aspects to his game (his best in Premier League crossing was evidence for this) and that he had world class potential. I will say that last season his crossing was world class. You cannot perform any better than best in the Premier League. Said only today. You're backtracking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 If you want to call it a backtrack you can, if that clears up the confusion. He was statistically the best crosser in the Premier League, which is an achievement, but if you ask my opinion I'm not prepared to say he was the best crosser on only half a season's worth of data. It's not like he goes from first to last even if it was a backtrack. Based on last season's form if someone told me the only person who could take the cross was Bannan I would be very pleased and expect something as good as Mata or Baines (but that doesn't mean I'm saying my opinion is he is as good a crosser, half a season of data is not enough for judgement on that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbdrum88 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Am I the only one who thinks he's going to be another whittingham, looks amaizing in the spl or championship just not able to step up to the prem .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Papillon - did you used to post under the name 'rocafella'? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Am I the only one who thinks he's going to be another whittingham, looks amaizing in the spl or championship just not able to step up to the prem .. Do you know how Whittingham will perform next year for Cardiff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa-revolution Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Con - Please give an unadulterated, clear, elucid & unequivocal sense of "World Class" that you do imply then. Thank You I do and did suggest he had world class aspects to his game (his best in Premier League crossing was evidence for this) and that he had world class potential. "Potential" is the key word there, saying someone has potential to be world class is completely different to saying they are actually world class. I said and say the former about Bannan but have never said and don't say the latter. An understanding of this basic point would save a lot of misunderstanding! You may notice this also explains why I have consistently criticised his game, which is because I think he is potentially world class but not currently actually world class. So Con, to narrow this down - please confirm then from deduction above that you believe that Bannan is World Class at crossing. (Not potentially but actually is) Yes or No? I will say that last season his crossing was world class. You cannot perform any better than best in the Premier League. Con? Since you answered this question I posed to you today you have back tracked & waffled on a load of old tosh. Today is the day that I have outed you as a Troll. Game Over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbdrum88 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I dont think whittingham will shine as much, I may be wrong but I think he's found his level in the championship ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 8, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2013 If you want to call it a backtrack you can, if that clears up the confusion. He was statistically the best crosser in the Premier League, which is an achievement, but if you ask my opinion I'm not prepared to say he was the best crosser on only half a season's worth of data. It's not like he goes from first to last even if it was a backtrack. Based on last season's form if someone told me the only person who could take the cross was Bannan I would be very pleased and expect something as good as Mata or Baines (but that doesn't mean I'm saying my opinion is he is as good a crosser, half a season of data is not enough for judgement on that). I will say that last season his crossing was world class. You cannot perform any better than best in the Premier League. I fail to see what I'm missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstonMartin82 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I think it would be best for him to go to his boyhood club Celtic No chance. Not good enough. Have we finally reached the end of the Bannan thread? Everyone must be bored now. Bannan's in the reserves, not going to get a game. Just a question of him using the England Scotland game to showcase his ability. How will the England fans on here feel about facing Bannan when he plays for Scotland? He was awful when he played for Scotland so (a) not much hope of getting a decent move out of it and ( I'd love it if he started against England but it really wouldn't surprise me if he got dumped from the first team again. So your telling me that you don't think banana would rack up a fairly decent assist tally in the spl? I've spoken to a lot of die hard bhoys that would love to have him there, providing they get him on the cheap/free or if he's part of a swap plus cash deal for a player That was meant to say bannan not banana (auto correct is useless) So you take the word of some "die hard" Celtic fans who have probably never seen him play over every Villa supporter who watches Bannan play every week? More fool you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I fail to see what I'm missing. My subsequent clarification of two sentences which can be misinterpreted. The question Who is the best crosser in the Premier League? is a subtly different one to question over the level of Bannan's performance over 18 matches. I think I've made that distinction and you are not yet accepting that I've made it, preferring to run with the narrative I have backtracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 8, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2013 But you said yourself that is crossing is world class, yet outwardly denied it perhaps an hour later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 But you said yourself that is crossing is world class, yet outwardly denied it perhaps an hour later? His crossing was at a world class level for a period. That is why he has the best record for crossing accuracy. If you are best in the Premier League on something, and the sample size is adequate, I think you are entitled to say you achieved a world class level of performance at that. I was later asked whether I thought Bannan was a world class crosser now, or whether he was the best crosser in the Premier League last season. The statistics show he was but if you want my opinion my opinion is that we don't have enough data to say that. I think what's happening is you are confusing my opinion with what the statistics say, whereas I always interpret statistics and have never denied there is room for interpretation in what the statistics show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Con? Since you answered this question I posed to you today you have back tracked & waffled on a load of old tosh. Today is the day that I have outed you as a Troll. Game Over. I'm not. If this Bannan discussion has entered the silly season I'm not the only one responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 All this talk of "world class". Is that this world, we're on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Con? Since you answered this question I posed to you today you have back tracked & waffled on a load of old tosh. Today is the day that I have outed you as a Troll. Game Over. I'm not. If this Bannan discussion has entered the silly season I'm not the only one responsible. You are not. You like Bannan, nothing wrong with that. Fans are entitled to have favourite players. I like Joe Bennett. Nothing wrong with being in a minority. Bannan had some decent games last season. The stick he gets is just silly. That said he never had any great games either, so the praise given to him is also a bit silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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