Jareth Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Can see him getting a few sub appearances, can bring him on for either Adomah or Snodgrass assuming they both start so will be plenty of chances to get involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 40 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said: Agree he's no winger. I think he needs to focus on perfecting that number 10 role just behind the striker. Whilst I think Davis and Kodjia are our best starting option upfront in a 4-4-2, Jack is a great option to come on for either of them and add something a little different. He's been a winger his whole up bringing so to stay he's not is silly. I still think he needs time to develop and he may grow into a no10 but he's flattered to deceive there yet. For now I'd have him LW till he finds his form then think about moving him around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, dn1982 said: He's been a winger his whole up bringing so to stay he's not is silly. I still think he needs time to develop and he may grow into a no10 but he's flattered to deceive there yet. For now I'd have him LW till he finds his form then think about moving him around. Just because someone's played there in the early part of his career does not mean it's silly to suggest he isn't suited to that role. Players develop and change over time - would you call me silly for saying Gareth Bale's no left back? IMO when you look at his strengths/weaknesses, I see a player more suited to being an inside forward/no.10. That's not to say he can't play off to the left, but I don't see him as a 'winger' i.e. someone who runs the line, goes past players looking to cross the ball in most of the time. Jack thinks the no.10 postion is his best position, Bruce set the team up in the summer with him in that role. I wouldn't be itching to switch up our current starting XI to play him there imediately, but I think he should concentrate on that role so he can be that kind of option off the bench once he's fit. Plus once Green is back, he and Albert will competing for that LW spot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 hours ago, markavfc40 said: Great to hear he is back. I hope people show a bit of patience with him though and allow him to get up to speed. He is the most naturally talented player in the squad and for me the most naturally gifted player we have produced since Mark Walters came through the ranks in the early 80's. What he has lacked is applying himself in the right way and also he has lacked confidence. It also hasn't helped his development that he broke through at a time the club was in the middle of a dire spell, that he has had no continuity and worked under 6 managers and had had some very poor role models influencing. I hope and I actually think the penny may have dropped for him and that we will hopefully now see the best of him once fully fit. Potentially he is head and shoulders above any player in this division. Steven Davies was our last naturally gifted youth player in my opinion. Can't agree with your last sentence at all. Have you seen Helder Costa play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Steven Davies was our last naturally gifted youth player in my opinion. Can't agree with your last sentence at all. Have you seen Helder Costa play? I never said he was the first naturally gifted player we have had since Mark Walters I said he was the most naturally gifted player since then. I agree Davis was/is a gifted player. Potentially I think he is head and shoulders above anything else in this division. Whether he realises that potential is another matter but I have seen enough in him to know that he can be something very special providing he applies himself in the right manner and we provide the environment to help him thrive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, markavfc40 said: I never said he was the first naturally gifted player we have had since Mark Walters I said he was the most naturally gifted player since then. I agree Davis was/is a gifted player. Potentially I think he is head and shoulders above anything else in this division. Whether he realises that potential is another matter but I have seen enough in him to know that he can be something very special providing he applies himself in the right manner and we provide the environment to help him thrive. Fair enough. I don't think he wil ever be as good as you think he will be. Decent championship player bordering lower half Premier league player is as good as it will get in my opinion. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, dn1982 said: He's been a winger his whole up bringing so to stay he's not is silly. I still think he needs time to develop and he may grow into a no10 but he's flattered to deceive there yet. For now I'd have him LW till he finds his form then think about moving him around. We all sit here and wonder / complain about why he's not fulfilling his potential and then throw in the comments about him not being a winger / playing LW most of his career...the 2 are almost definitely related his form and performances for England U21s where he plays behind a front 2 is a lot better than it is for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 33 minutes ago, villa4europe said: We all sit here and wonder / complain about why he's not fulfilling his potential and then throw in the comments about him not being a winger / playing LW most of his career...the 2 are almost definitely related his form and performances for England U21s where he plays behind a front 2 is a lot better than it is for us He has fulfilled his potential. This is as good as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Think he will still have a big role to play. 4-4-2 has worked but it won't every game and Davis will dip in and out of form as the season progresses. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if after Xmas Jack was a key member of the first 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 hours ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said: Just because someone's played there in the early part of his career does not mean it's silly to suggest he isn't suited to that role. Players develop and change over time - would you call me silly for saying Gareth Bale's no left back? IMO when you look at his strengths/weaknesses, I see a player more suited to being an inside forward/no.10. That's not to say he can't play off to the left, but I don't see him as a 'winger' i.e. someone who runs the line, goes past players looking to cross the ball in most of the time. Jack thinks the no.10 postion is his best position, Bruce set the team up in the summer with him in that role. I wouldn't be itching to switch up our current starting XI to play him there imediately, but I think he should concentrate on that role so he can be that kind of option off the bench once he's fit. Plus once Green is back, he and Albert will competing for that LW spot. So far his best games have been from the left. At the minute he's a winger that plays 10 IMO and so far not that well. He holds on to the ball way too much. What sort of 10 is he? For me he should stay as a LW and look to be a Waddle type of winger. If he becomes a 10 he'll to develop his passing and finishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: We all sit here and wonder / complain about why he's not fulfilling his potential and then throw in the comments about him not being a winger / playing LW most of his career...the 2 are almost definitely related his form and performances for England U21s where he plays behind a front 2 is a lot better than it is for us He's played there for us and not been that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) Jack is an undoubted talent....but for me that talent is unfulfilled, so far. This division is very unforgiving and you have to scrap for everything.....refs are poor and seem to turn a blind eye to physicality....so all in all you have to be street wise to cope and impose yourself. Jack has been playing in a dysfunctional villa team in recent times,so its difficult to get a full handle on his potential. Jack has an opportunity to now play in a balanced Villa team, but he must show signs of adding value consistently, not in fleeting glimpses. Application and Assertiveness is all that is denying Jack, from being a very fine player. Edited October 14, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 5 hours ago, markavfc40 said: Potentially I think he is head and shoulders above anything else in this division. You've made many fine posts on this board and I often nod along with your views. I've posted because I'm in rare disagreement. He's got the odd show trick and flashes of quality, but the fact is they don't make a quality player. I think the guy who holds the world keepie-up record has never played top flight football. Again, tricks and flicks don't make an effective player. I think he's had a free pass at this club because he's a local lad and a youth teamer. He's showed precious little, IMHO, for a very long time. In the games I've seen, I don't think I've ever said to myself, 'we're really missing Grealish.' He scored a good goal against Rotherham after some nice footwork, but that's about as memorable as he's been. If you asked me who I'd prefer to have an injury-free season, Grealish or Keinan, I'd say Keinan. For me, Keinan already looks like a more effective player. I think some (not necessarily you) confuse skill for quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 @Heretic That is fair enough mate. I think where we would all agree is that it is getting to the time that Grealish needs to produce consistently good performances and not flash in the pan moments. I do think he is a very naturally gifted player and has plenty of attributes that mean he has the potential to be a very good player at the top level. Time will tell and I certainly know that I or anyone else can't keep saying he has a lot of potential for too much longer. He has to start realising that potential soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 14, 2017 I honestly think Jack Grealish is one of the most over rated players we’ve ever produced and we have a long standing habit of over hyping our youth products. He isn’t quick enough in movement or in passing to ever be great in the position he wants to play and as a result he slows the play too often. He has fantastic close control and ability to turn but without real pace players at a decent level will deal with that. He has played what, 50-60 games for us? I can think of maybe 5 games where he has stood out in that time. Sure he has played under lots of managers and in lots of positions, plus with some shite players which are all mitigating factors but it’s still not impressive. I’m not saying he is a bad player, I’ll be glad to have him back but I think the way a lot of Villa fans view and rate him is very very different to if we had signed him and a little unjustified. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Can he play left back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 10 hours ago, markavfc40 said: @Heretic That is fair enough mate. I think where we would all agree is that it is getting to the time that Grealish needs to produce consistently good performances and not flash in the pan moments. I do think he is a very naturally gifted player and has plenty of attributes that mean he has the potential to be a very good player at the top level. Time will tell and I certainly know that I or anyone else can't keep saying he has a lot of potential for too much longer. He has to start realising that potential soon. Spot on! That is also the reason why I can't help but feel he will miss his opportunity at the Villa, end up being sold, and then turning into a very good player elsewhere, when he's about 25. Hopefully, his previous blemishes have been down to his youthfulness and he comes back tougher and more mature than before and realises the potential everybody sees in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Have a little bit more faith guys! I believe Jack will come good for us, I think we saw bits of it at the end of last season. Definitely needs to play centrally (not as a direct left winger), IMO should be picked either as a support striker or attacking mid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 4 hours ago, TrentVilla said: I honestly think Jack Grealish is one of the most over rated players we’ve ever produced and we have a long standing habit of over hyping our youth products. He isn’t quick enough in movement or in passing to ever be great in the position he wants to play and as a result he slows the play too often. He has fantastic close control and ability to turn but without real pace players at a decent level will deal with that. He has played what, 50-60 games for us? I can think of maybe 5 games where he has stood out in that time. Sure he has played under lots of managers and in lots of positions, plus with some shite players which are all mitigating factors but it’s still not impressive. I’m not saying he is a bad player, I’ll be glad to have him back but I think the way a lot of Villa fans view and rate him is very very different to if we had signed him and a little unjustified. An interesting post, can't argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 4 hours ago, villarocker said: Spot on! That is also the reason why I can't help but feel he will miss his opportunity at the Villa, end up being sold, and then turning into a very good player elsewhere, when he's about 25. Hopefully, his previous blemishes have been down to his youthfulness and he comes back tougher and more mature than before and realises the potential everybody sees in him. Its a good point about his maturity....i guess players vary with that. Its interesting to see Barry Bannan, Steven Davies, Joe Bennett and the likes maturing and functioning in teams doing ok. it begs the question if we discard them too soon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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