Global Warming and Climate Protest

[MakemineVanilla]

James Lovelock, the environmentalist, had some very interesting views on climate change, and thought that the climate was likely to change a lot faster than is presently assumed, so our limited resources should not be spent on trying to reduce carbon emissions, but better spent protecting the UK from the consequences of climate change (eg flooding), as it will be one of the few areas of Europe which will remain habitable.

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The same year he suggested that "we have to keep in mind the awesome pace of change and realise how little time is left to act, and then each community and nation must find the best use of the resources they have to sustain civilisation for as long as they can."[52] He further predicted in 2007 that the temperature increase would leave much of the world's land uninhabitable and unsuitable for farming, with northerly migrations and new cities created in the Arctic; furthermore that much of Europe will have turned to desert and Britain will have become Europe's "life-raft" due to its stable temperature caused by being surrounded by the ocean

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Lovelock#Climate

[Rugeley Villa]

By the year 2100 80% of humans will have perished and the climate change will last for 100.000 years . Pretty scary stuff, and hopefully he’s well out regarding tone scale. The whole mass movement of people is a serious issue .

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

By the year 2100 80% of humans will have perished and the climate change will last for 100.000 years . Pretty scary stuff, and hopefully he’s well out regarding tone scale. The whole mass movement of people is a serious issue .

In the year 9595

I'm kinda wonderin' if man is gonna be alive

He's taken everything this old earth can give

And he ain't put back nothing

[Rugeley Villa]

Just now, sidcow said:

 

And he ain't put back nothing

Only dead bodies into the ground and pollution into our land air and sea . 

[OutByEaster?]

i just bought a boiler - i was speaking to the engineer about heat pumps and my house (built 1900, no cavity walls, not a huge amount of space) and I asked him about heat pumps becoming mandatory and what his best advice would be for me...

"Move".

 

[CVByrne]

 

[MakemineVanilla]

29 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

 

As critics of capitalism often point out, whenever a barrier appears, the capitalist will always find a way round it.

As economies become increasingly financialized, it would seem that this would become easier to achieve.

Based upon this, it seems certain that most of the cost of net-zero will fall on ordinary folk.

There will be no victims, only volunteers!

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by MakemineVanilla

[CVByrne]

8 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

As critics of capitalism often point out, whenever a barrier appears, the capitalist will always find a way round it.

As economies become increasingly financialized, it would seem that this would become easier to achieve.

Based upon this, it seems certain that most of the cost of net-zero will fall on ordinary folk.

There will be no victims, only volunteers!

 

It's simple, regulation. The EU is doing it well and correctly. Carbon credits work if they are regulated 

[tinker]

On 23/09/2023 at 08:27, OutByEaster? said:

i just bought a boiler - i was speaking to the engineer about heat pumps and my house (built 1900, no cavity walls, not a huge amount of space) and I asked him about heat pumps becoming mandatory and what his best advice would be for me...

"Move".

 

It's a shame cladding has been tainted by poor implementation. I could see insulation and exterior cladding as been effective in increasing the insulation performance of older buildings quite easily, if its done correctly. 

[sidcow]

I subscribe to something called "stop burning stuff" via Patreon. 

Their aim is to raise funds to professionally counter all the anti clean energy nonsense peddled in the press by highly paid Oil and Gas shills in the media. 

It seems Quentin Wilson was due to appear on the Jacob Rees-Mogg show to talk about this Luton Airport fire.

However when it was established that it was a diesel car that started it, not an electric car they totally dropped the feature.  So. Basically they were ONLY interested in running the story to attack EV's. If I was not an. EV they had no desire to run the story at all. 

What a disgrace. 

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

I subscribe to something called "stop burning stuff" via Patreon. 

Their aim is to raise funds to professionally counter all the anti clean energy nonsense peddled in the press by highly paid Oil and Gas shills in the media. 

It seems Quentin Wilson was due to appear on the Jacob Rees-Mogg show to talk about this Luton Airport fire.

However when it was established that it was a diesel car that started it, not an electric car they totally dropped the feature.  So. Basically they were ONLY interested in running the story to attack EV's. If I was not an. EV they had no desire to run the story at all. 

What a disgrace. 

It was a diesel but possibly a Hybrid. Looks like a Range Rover which has the Hydrid battery on the front N/S which is coincidently where the fire started. Just speculating, although I have delt with a couple of selfcharging hybrids which have caught fire or got extremely hot, due to a fault causing the battery to be overcharged.

[sidcow]

Am I right that once the Flame throwers at Villa Park have had their 2 minutes of use they are all taken to the corner of the Holte and you can hear them emptying out the unused gas? 

I'm just wondering if the club has considered the environmental impact of these things. 

OK they look impressive and that but we're living in desperate times right now. Burning the gas for effect really isn't a great idea is it and I doubt leaking unnecessary gas into the atmosphere is helpful either. 

Dunno, just a thought and I wonder if anyone at the club has considered it. 

I sound like a killjoy I know. 

[sne]

Well this wasn't cheery now was it. (Long read). Basically we are screwed.

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Unavoidable future increase in West Antarctic ice-shelf melting over the twenty-first century

Our simulations present a sobering outlook for the Amundsen Sea. Substantial ocean warming and ice-shelf melting is projected in all future climate scenarios, including those considered to be unrealistically ambitious. A baseline of rapid twenty-first-century ocean warming and consequent sea-level rise appears to be committed. This warming is primarily driven by an acceleration of the Amundsen Undercurrent transporting warmer CDW onto the continental shelf. Basal melting increases across all ice shelves in the Amundsen Sea, including in regions providing critical buttressing to the grounded ice sheet.

Mid-range mitigation scenarios (RCP 4.5) and the more ambitious aims of the Paris Agreement (global warming limited to 1.5 °C or 2 °C) are statistically indistinguishable in terms of Amundsen Sea warming trends over the twenty-first century. The similarity of ocean warming between forcing scenarios and the large spread within each ensemble imply that internal climate variability will be extremely important in determining the future of the WAIS. The only control that mitigation can offer is by preventing the worst-case scenario (RCP 8.5). Here, the thermocline rises so high that most ice shelves are permanently bathed in warm CDW. However, RCP 8.5 does not diverge from the lower-range scenarios until 2045, and the additional melting mainly affects shallower regions of the ice shelves, which are less important for sea-level rise. The choice of scenario is likely to become more important in the twenty-second century and beyond.

This study presents, to our knowledge, the most comprehensive future projections of Amundsen Sea ice-shelf melting so far. We simulate a wide range of future climate scenarios, and by running ensembles we can compare these scenarios in a statistically robust manner. Ensembles also allow us to study the distribution of possible melting trends, considering low-probability, high-impact cases at the upper end of the distribution, as well as the most likely case. By combining the maximum future warming trend in our ensembles (Fig. 2) with historical warming, we find that Amundsen Sea ocean conditions in 2100 could be up to 2 °C warmer than pre-industrial temperatures. For Antarctic water masses, a 2 °C increase is striking.

This study does not undermine the importance of mitigation in limiting the impacts of climate change. Mass loss from the WAIS is just one component of sea-level rise, and other regions of Antarctica are unlikely to lose substantial mass if current emissions targets are met³⁰. This is to say nothing of the many impacts of climate change beyond sea-level rise. However, adaptation should now be considered more seriously as a priority in the world’s response to sea-level rise. The opportunity to preserve the WAIS in its present-day state has probably passed, and policymakers should be prepared for several metres of sea-level rise over the coming centuries. Internal climate variability, which we cannot predict or control, may be the deciding factor in the rate of ice loss during this time. Limiting the societal and economic costs of sea-level rise will require a combination of mitigation, adaptation and luck.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01818-x#author-information

[MakemineVanilla]

On 27/09/2023 at 16:38, tinker said:

It's a shame cladding has been tainted by poor implementation. I could see insulation and exterior cladding as been effective in increasing the insulation performance of older buildings quite easily, if its done correctly. 

The wittiest thing I ever heard on the subject of cladding, was a rather snooty remark about it always reminding them of Piet Mondrian.

[Xann]

[sne]

So how are we feeling, anyone hopeful that the current COP28 meeting currently taking place in Dubai will mean any big steps forward for the planet?

Fwiw the guy who up until yesterday was president for this shindig was Sultan al-Jaber who is also president for an oil company. He was removed from his role after allegations that he was planning to use this get together so strike oil deals with 15 countries on the behalf of UAE. It's like Jimmy Saville holding a child abuse prevention conference. 

Anyway, hope they have a good time at least.

[sidcow]

38 minutes ago, sne said:

So how are we feeling, anyone hopeful that the current COP28 meeting currently taking place in Dubai will mean any big steps forward for the planet?

Fwiw the guy who up until yesterday was president for this shindig was Sultan al-Jaber who is also president for an oil company. He was removed from his role after allegations that he was planning to use this get together so strike oil deals with 15 countries on the behalf of UAE. It's like Jimmy Saville holding a child abuse prevention conference. 

Anyway, hope they have a good time at least.

It's utterly ridiculous that they held it in Dubai.

Frankly I have no faith that Governments will sort out much of it anymore.  I think it will be mainly driven by simple Economics and consumer demand now.

Some Saudi or Qatari firm are now buying The Telegraph group.  I mean why not, their multiple daily stories slating any kind of clean green tech show they've been bribing the journalists and editors for years, may are well cut out the middle man and just own it to driver editorial content.

[CVByrne]

Europe and USA have been cutting emissions for a long time now and we're leading the way on the new green technologies. I'm happy with the progress we've made here in the West (especially Europe).

The question on global targets rests with Asia really. Will China follow the trend of Europe and USA and cut emissions. How will India's economic growth impact the emissions. 

[sne]

Maybe just maybe this isn't the guy to have as president for this organization. 

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Cop28 president says there is ‘no science’ behind demands for phase-out of fossil fuels

The president of Cop28, Sultan Al Jaber, has claimed there is “no science” indicating that a phase-out of fossil fuels is needed to restrict global heating to 1.5C, the Guardian and the Centre for Climate Reporting can reveal.

Al Jaber also said a phase-out of fossil fuels would not allow sustainable development “unless you want to take the world back into caves”.

Al Jaber made the comments in ill-tempered responses to questions from Mary Robinson, the chair of the Elders group and a former UN special envoy for climate change, during a live online event on 21 November. As well as running Cop28 in Dubai, Al Jaber is also the chief executive of the United Arab Emirates’ state oil company, Adnoc, which many observers see as a serious conflict of interest.

Al Jaber said: “I accepted to come to this meeting to have a sober and mature conversation. I’m not in any way signing up to any discussion that is alarmist. There is no science out there, or no scenario out there, that says that the phase-out of fossil fuel is what’s going to achieve 1.5C.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/03/back-into-caves-cop28-president-dismisses-phase-out-of-fossil-fuels

[Rugeley Villa]

Was the latest get together a success? Obviously words are only that words, but can it be hailed as a successful gathering of world leaders.