Global Warming and Climate Protest

[sidcow]

4 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Ok fair enough point but nobody is really talking about excess deaths due to heat in Europe as one of the major issues of climate change. The major issues are more rising sea levels, loss of biodiversity, drought and the impact of climate change on forced migration. 

And war and murder over food and water shortage.  That alone will dwarf lives saved because it's a bit warmer in Northerly countries. 

[sidcow]

Won't many of the measures to combat global warming save loads of cold weather deaths? 

Pretty much EVERY report you read says the biggest bang for your buck, the first thing you should do before anything is to properly insulate your home. 

A perfectly insulated home shouldn't actually need any form of heating at all. Literally the warmth of human bodies will warm it up enough. 

Obviously a perfectly insulated space is not really practical for a living space, but better insulation will undoubtedly save many lives, especially where they can't afford significant heating bills. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by sidcow

[VILLAMARV]

On 16/07/2023 at 12:23, CVByrne said:

Science is disregarded when it goes against the political message. Both on left and right.

And in the middle

[Hobsons Choice]

On 17/07/2023 at 14:46, maqroll said:

The waters around Florida are at 90F which is shocking. It likely means that the imminent hurricane season has the potential to produce multiple category 5 storms. Warming water along the eastern seaboard makes the entire coast more vulnerable, including New England. Cape Cod, Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket are sitting ducks.

And ultimately us, too. Warm waters off the US can re-energise recurring storms heading into the Atlantic after they have headed up the US coast.

[VILLAMARV]

On 17/07/2023 at 16:19, CVByrne said:

This often what people propose as solutions. Which is essentially a fundamental change of western capitalism via more direct government control and a form of Marxism. 

It's based on a view that ties climate change to capitalism and frames the only solutions to the problem as essentially overthrowing capitalism.

So this solution to the problem is a far worse situation than the problem itself. That's not a solution. 

This is where the problem really is. We need to settle on the solution. Is the solution the decades long transition of our economies to green energy and net zero with technology advancements or is it ending capitalism and concepts like economic growth. 

Personally, I don't see things through this binary Lens. Not all attempts to change the world for the better result in tyranny. One doesn't have to 'overthrow capitalism' to stop adhering to the fallacies of game theory. The drastic and heavily accelerated (in historical terms) warming of the planet is not tied to capitalism but seemingly to the period from the industrial revolution and beyond. You're attacking a strawman again.

What is interesting to me is that we don't appear to disagree about the practicalities of dealing with the problem, but the political philosophies that underpin society's economic reasoning. You appear to me to have faith in the concept of an inherent altruism which I'm unconvinced exists naturally. We have a similar goal, just envisioning different paths.

[VILLAMARV]

A few people have mentioned war.

It's hard not to wonder about the environmental impact of such an endeavour.

[MakemineVanilla]

1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

A few people have mentioned war.

It's hard not to wonder about the environmental impact of such an endeavour.

I suppose the obvious question is whether there will be fewer wars, if nations move to renewables.

History records that a substantial number of wars have been waged to gain or secure access to coal and oil.

It would seem that most of America's wars in recent history have been motivated by the need to secure cheap oil for the Western economies, including the present one.

 

[LondonLax]

6 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

I suppose the obvious question is whether there will be fewer wars, if nations move to renewables.

History records that a substantial number of wars have been waged to gain or secure access to coal and oil.

It would seem that most of America's wars in recent history have been motivated by the need to secure cheap oil for the Western economies, including the present one.

 

There may well be wars fought over other commodities such as water or fertile crop growing land. 

[sne]

Water is what the upcoming big conflicts will be about I reckon. The dams being built by China close to India and the one being built in Africa that will effect the countries around the Nile. And then just the lack of fresh water as the world keeps heating up. Worlds going up in flames. 

Edit: The Yemen war is at least partly due to Saudi not wanting Iran to have the ability to strike their desalination plants on both coasts if the was a direct war between them.

Edited July 21, 2023 by sne

[MakemineVanilla]

2 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

There may well be wars fought over other commodities such as water or fertile crop growing land. 

There will always be wars because it is the nature of our species.

[sidcow]

6 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

There will always be wars because it is the nature of our species.

words removed will be words removed. 

[Xela]

6 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

There will always be wars because it is the nature of our species.

We've evolved too much and we'll end up destroying ourselves as a result. 

[MakemineVanilla]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

We've evolved too much and we'll end up destroying ourselves as a result. 

You only have to read Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning to realise we are all capable of turning feral, with only a small change of circumstances.

According to Adam Curtis's documentary, The Century of the Self, the only thing preventing us from embracing extremism is consumerism, which gives meaning to our lives.

This theory will surely be tested if we are forced to have a much lower standard of living, for whatever reason.

 

[sidcow]

47 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

You only have to read Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning to realise we are all capable of turning feral, with only a small change of circumstances.

According to Adam Curtis's documentary, The Century of the Self, the only thing preventing us from embracing extremism is consumerism, which gives meaning to our lives.

This theory will surely be tested if we are forced to have a much lower standard of living, for whatever reason.

 

Or just watch Trading Places. 

[Xann]

On 20/07/2023 at 15:47, CVByrne said:

I don't get it

Nor does MMV, who clearly isn't thick yet keeps posting fruitcakes in this thread.

I mean there should be a counter argument, someone might chip in with something really relevant?

It's been a sorry selection of mercenaries and idiots.

I'm double astounded by it.

One, that he believes any of it himself. Two that he'd think they'd hold water in a thread that isn't dominated by MAGA/Farage morons.

 

 

[foreveryoung]

On 21/07/2023 at 10:19, VILLAMARV said:

Personally, I don't see things through this binary Lens. Not all attempts to change the world for the better result in tyranny. One doesn't have to 'overthrow capitalism' to stop adhering to the fallacies of game theory. The drastic and heavily accelerated (in historical terms) warming of the planet is not tied to capitalism but seemingly to the period from the industrial revolution and beyond. You're attacking a strawman again.

What is interesting to me is that we don't appear to disagree about the practicalities of dealing with the problem, but the political philosophies that underpin society's economic reasoning. You appear to me to have faith in the concept of an inherent altruism which I'm unconvinced exists naturally. We have a similar goal, just envisioning different paths.

Is this a AI answer, cause surely no person could speak such bol****s.

[VILLAMARV]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Is this a AI answer, cause surely no person could speak such bol****s.

Nope, all my own work. Feel free to elaborate though. Which bit/bits made you question my existance?

[VILLAMARV]

17 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Adam Curtis's documentary, The Century of the Self

It's been mentioned in the documentary thread and its 20 years old now, but this really is a must watch imho. Edward Bernays. The Godfather of propaganda

[MakemineVanilla]

12 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

It's been mentioned in the documentary thread and its 20 years old now, but this really is a must watch imho. Edward Bernays. The Godfather of propaganda

I've watched it more than once and the fact that Bernays was Freud's nephew can't but give you pause.

[LondonLax]

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by LondonLax