Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Risso]

Unlike most public-sector definded benefit pensions, the RMs weren't funded out the general taxation pot, but instead were liabilities of the company itself.  That liability has been transferred to the country to add to the other trillions, so they won't be paying it off as such.  And the fact that final salary schemes do lead to such a deficit shows that they're completely unaffordable and therefore couldn't be given to new employees.  So we might be paying tax credits, but we'll be paying far, far more in pensions for a lot longer.

[blandy]

 

...I just didn't want you to think that my mutterings were backed by anything worthwhile.

One day you might surprise me

[thetrees]

I don't think UKIP, BNP, EDL any of them are remotely on the right lines, but Farage does express things that have been kind of hushed over to a degree by the others. We shouldn't ignore that view, even if we think they're nutters.

I am pretty sure that it wasn't your intention to generalise, but by putting these three together, that is the impression given.

The BNP are a nasty bunch of racists, who have been banging that particular drum for decades. They could not attain success when Britain was less tolerant than it is nowadays and just become more and more of an irrelevance as the years go by.

Having watched a recent documentary about the EDL, and assuming that it was fairly accurate, they are not really an organisation as such. The view that I got was that they are like a bunch of away football supporters, anxious to get a few beer down their necks and generally make a nuisance of themselves. They appear to attract some of societies outcasts, who like the feeling of belonging and, having watched that documentary, I concluded that they were not dissimilar to young muslims who feel like outcasts and subsequently become radicalised. I suspect that the average person who attends an EDL rally votes Labour, if they vote at all.

I am not a supporter of UKIP, although their concerns about the expansion and growth of an undemocratic EU are something that I share. By bringing this into the public debate, they are forcing discussion on things that could affect our country for generations.

Without them the mainstream parties would whimper along telling us how wonderful the EU is, and ignoring all the flaws along the way.

UKIP's moment may never come, but there is no way that they should ever be bracketed with either BNP or EDL, because they are far removed from both.

[colhint]

I see Ed has said, Farage shouldn't be at a debate with himself, Cameron and Clegg. Whether he is right or wrong, it does appear to make him look as if he is running scared, He probably should have kept quiet. 

 

Personally I'd like to see a second tier debate with probably the Greens UKIP and maybe respect. Whoever wins that debate to go through to meet the others in the second debate. With maybe one from the first tier dropping out

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

UKIP are similar to Front National in a few ways, e.g. xenophobia mingled in with populist rhetoric. I can't see UKIP having the same sort of traction over here, but I do think they'll win seats and take votes away from Tories and Labour.

 

Anyway, I wait to see if the BBC let the Greens have the same chance to debate an established party live on television.

[villaajax]

If they let UKIP act as a major party despite not having a single MP, the Green Party should be given a chance.

[villaajax]

Labour have pledged to scrap the Tories' gagging law.

[AVFCforever1991]

Labour have pledged to scrap the Tories' gagging law.

 

Giggity.

[blandy]

 

I don't think UKIP, BNP, EDL any of them are remotely on the right lines, but Farage does express things that have been kind of hushed over to a degree by the others. We shouldn't ignore that view, even if we think they're nutters.

I am pretty sure that it wasn't your intention to generalise, but by putting these three together, that is the impression given.....

 

 

.....I am not a supporter of UKIP, although their concerns about the expansion and growth of an undemocratic EU are something that I share. By bringing this into the public debate, they are forcing discussion on things that could affect our country for generations.

Without them the mainstream parties would whimper along telling us how wonderful the EU is, and ignoring all the flaws along the way.

UKIP's moment may never come, but there is no way that they should ever be bracketed with either BNP or EDL, because they are far removed from both.

 

There are some overlaps, IMO between UKIPs and EDL and the BNP. Primarily their dislike/loathing of immigration, immigrants, multi-cultural life etc.

 

Their approaches and level of respectability are different. UKIPs being apparently the most respectable. They are not however "the same" as the other two, though they do have a fair few loons in their numbers, as well as a lot of normal people (which the other two don't have).

 

I agree that UKIP likes to go to issues (politically) that Labour and Tories won't go, because of their own party splits - specifically the EU and immigration (to a lesser degree). In that respect, whatever your viewpoint, that's a good thing, and one of the reasons they are popular(ish).

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

So what do folk make of this (somewhat unforunately titled) Left Unity party?

 

Link to policies and stuff

[villaajax]

No substance to it really.

 

"We are against things people don't like"

"We are for things people do like"

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

They do have badges, though.

[chrisp65]

If they let UKIP act as a major party despite not having a single MP, the Green Party should be given a chance.

 

and given that they also have MP's, the various regional nationalist parties and NI parties etc should possibly be given a TV debate if a party with no MP's is being so massively promoted?

 

there are already 28 seats in the commons held by parties (not independents) that are not the 'big 3' and not UKIP

 

where is there constant national advertising, where is there debate with Slick Clegg?

 

it's not as though Europe registers as a priority issue with voters

[Risso]

 

If they let UKIP act as a major party despite not having a single MP, the Green Party should be given a chance.

 

and given that they also have MP's, the various regional nationalist parties and NI parties etc should possibly be given a TV debate if a party with no MP's is being so massively promoted?

 

there are already 28 seats in the commons held by parties (not independents) that are not the 'big 3' and not UKIP

 

where is there constant national advertising, where is there debate with Slick Clegg?

 

it's not as though Europe registers as a priority issue with voters

 

 

Simple, the Ofcom rules say they have to.  The regional parties are given slots in their respective ITV regions.  Why would anybody in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland want to see Plaid Cymru debates for example. The Ofcom rules say:

 

"15. Licensees should consider making additional allocations of PEBs to other registered parties (which satisfy the criteria at Rule 14) if evidence of their past electoral support and/or current support at a particular election or in a relevant nation/electoral area means it would be appropriate to do so. In this regard, Licensees should consider whether other registered parties should qualify for a series of PEBs and/or peak-time scheduling, as major parties do."

 

At present, UKIP are the third most popular party in the opinion polls, therefore they're allocated TV time because of this current support.

[chrisp65]

ok, cool

 

I think I last watched ITV in about 1993, so it might be they've been on there every day with their little flags for all I know!

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

The debates here are hillarious. One hour of listening to one side sling mud to the other, with some cross-community moderates in the middle sighing and wondering if they were better off spending the night at home with the Band of Brothers box set.

[peterms]

[villaajax]

They should really crack down on these benefit cheats.

[Eames]

They should really crack down on these benefit cheats.

Absolutely. Cameron has really failed here. Weak leadership. She should be sacked, plain and simple - the only reason she hasn't been is because he needs women in the cabinet.

 

The equivilent offence of (even if you give her the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't intentional) for benefit claimants carries a prison sentence. Its scandalous she has been allowed to continue as a minister.

 

There needs to be a wholesale reform on MPs expenses. As a London MP she had no business claiming second home allowance in the first place.

[blandy]

The debates here are hillarious. One hour of listening to one side sling mud to the other, with some cross-community moderates in the middle sighing and wondering if they were better off spending the night at home with the Band of Brothers box set.

Aye, but they're almost exactly the same as the UK ones. I've spent a lot of time in Aus over the past year, and your Q&A programme is exactly the same as our Question time. And the various newschannel things on politics are the same, everything is the same in regard of politics, except your PM is even more bonkers (and IMO dangerous) than ours. The only bit that I noticed slightly different is the parliament building is modern, light and airey and the MPs in there are a bit more blunt and direct.