Bolitics The New Condem Government

[blandy]

I've always felt the hatred of the super rich in this country is mainly on account of jealousy over the success of others - a particularly unpleasant character trait. In a free society people are entitled to get rich and good for them if they do imho.

 Each to their own. It's not my feeling. If anything I'd say that most people have been pretty realxed about the rich until more recent times, when it's become even more glaringly apparent that not only are they "undeserving rich", but they are, in many cases, far from being a benefit to the nation, they're a curse.

Whether it's profiteering energy bosses, Train company operators, Bank executives, Heads of NHS Trusts, or councils, or the BBC high ups, they give every indication of utter incompetence, utter unwillingness to accept that they're both massively priveleged and in many cases at fault for the mess the country is in.

I think a lot of people will look at actors, sports people, whoever, and not begrudge them at all their rewards, or be pretty casual about it, while acknowledging that they're probably not worth it, they're mostly percieved as benign (except for John Terry). It's the pinstriped twerps that are now loathed for their aloof, tax-dodging, incompetent self serving control over "us".

 

[blandy]

 

Insofar as it's the business of government at all, I'm more concerned with trying to pull more people up than pulling a few people down

 

 

I don't think the Tories are trying to do that. I think they're basically focussed on trying to pull the very wealthy up even further, to protect an elite.

 

For all that welfare did need some reform, what they've done is the opposite of pulling (poor) people up, they've been holding them down, with a throat grip, with one hand, while laying out a cloak upon the ground for various others to step upon and avoid the dirt they, those self same rich twerps created.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Don't worry Boris, soon enough London will be beyond the means of anyone who doesn't have a heap of cash. As soon as the poor and johnny foreigner aren't around, the super-rich can walk around and act with impunity among the dunderheaded 'what's good for them is good for us' crowd.

Edited November 19, 2013 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[Awol]

 

 

Insofar as it's the business of government at all, I'm more concerned with trying to pull more people up than pulling a few people down

 

 

I don't think the Tories are trying to do that. I think they're basically focussed on trying to pull the very wealthy up even further, to protect an elite.

I was expressing my opinion of what any government's approach should be, not what the Tories are up to.  My comment on a previous page wasn't in support of Boris, simply pointing out the factual basis in his claim that the super rich pay nearly 1/3 of the entire tax take and what that actually means in terms of a contribution to society.

 

Of course we could continue this charade that's it all the evil rich Tories screwing everyone else, or maybe open our eyes, look across the chamber and notice that, actually, the official opposition are not short of a bob or two themselves..

 

Ed Miliband's Bollinger bolsheviks Despite the class-war rhetoric, Labour’s elite is still intensely comfortable with being filthy rich — and it’s becoming ever more so

 

Maybe then people might notice what a manufactured sham this whole "hooray for the rich! No, burn the rich!" argument actually is. 

[snowychap]

Insofar as it's the business of government at all, I'm more concerned with trying to pull more people up than pulling a few people down.

Having enough 'pulled up' (to what level exactly is another question) by clutching to the coattails of the very few would appear, I grant you, to be the guiding economic and social principles of this (and to a lesser degree the last) government. Edited November 19, 2013 by snowychap

[chrisp65]

 

 

 

Insofar as it's the business of government at all, I'm more concerned with trying to pull more people up than pulling a few people down

 

 

I don't think the Tories are trying to do that. I think they're basically focussed on trying to pull the very wealthy up even further, to protect an elite.

I was expressing my opinion of what any government's approach should be, not what the Tories are up to.  My comment on a previous page wasn't in support of Boris, simply pointing out the factual basis in his claim that the super rich pay nearly 1/3 of the entire tax take and what that actually means in terms of a contribution to society.

 

Of course we could continue this charade that's it all the evil rich Tories screwing everyone else, or maybe open our eyes, look across the chamber and notice that, actually, the official opposition are not short of a bob or two themselves..

 

Ed Miliband's Bollinger bolsheviks Despite the class-war rhetoric, Labour’s elite is still intensely comfortable with being filthy rich — and it’s becoming ever more so

 

Maybe then people might notice what a manufactured sham this whole "hooray for the rich! No, burn the rich!" argument actually is. 

 

 

Where's that Rory Delap when you need him?

 

Anti tory does not automatically mean pro labour, I'm shocked at how difficult a concept that appears to be.

[Richard]

 

 

Where's that Rory Delap when you need him?

 

Anti tory does not automatically mean pro labour, I'm shocked at how difficult a concept that appears to be.

 

Strange how people can read posts and see different things.  I do not think AWOL was saying that.

[Awol]

 

 

 

Where's that Rory Delap when you need him?

 

Anti tory does not automatically mean pro labour, I'm shocked at how difficult a concept that appears to be.

 

Strange how people can read posts and see different things.  I do not think AWOL was saying that.

 

You're right I wasn't saying that, any more than I was supporting the Tories when agreeing with Boris that the super rich actually make a huge contribution to our national wealth and common infrastructure. It's not about praising, supporting or kow-towing to the very wealthy, just acknowledging a fact.

[Awol]

 

Insofar as it's the business of government at all, I'm more concerned with trying to pull more people up than pulling a few people down.

Having enough 'pulled up' (to what level exactly is another question) by clutching to the coattails of the very few would appear, I grant you, to be the guiding economic and social principles of this (and to a lesser degree the last) government.

 

I would say it is down to the individual to pull themselves up and not expect a free ride from any one. The government should simply provide a safety net for those who lose their grip and fall while trying, or who through no fault of their own are unable to climb in the first place.

 

EDIT:  I meant to add that where the government can be proactive is in shaping the conditions for innovation and business to flourish, enabling the private sector to create more jobs.  They have all patently failed in that department over recent times.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Awol

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

I've always felt the hatred of the super rich in this country is mainly on account of jealousy over the success of others

What trite shite, Jon - that's a political judgement rather than the etymological one that Mr Mooney explained to us on VT a few years ago.

 

Trite shite it may be in your opinion, that doesn't change the fact it is mine.  Insofar as it's the business of government at all, I'm more concerned with trying to pull more people up than pulling a few people down.

 

 

There is the problem because there is little doubt that successive governments have interfered to advantage the rich and to disadvantage workers, so that most of the benefits from increases in productivity over the last three decades have gone to the rich, which has been facilitated by government policy.

 

Sack workers and make the reduced workforce do their missing colleagues' jobs, make them more productive but only pay them a tiny proportion of the extra value they create and keep the rest and pay it out in boardroom pay, share-options and bonuses.

 

Allow companies to have contribution holidays from their pension funds and then when the funds look under-funded claim the scheme is unaffordable.

 

Allow open-door immigration to further increase supply in the labour market and instead of training people import the skills from low-wage economies. Allow agency workers and zero-hours contracts to further fix the labour market in employers' favour and create a whole class of powerless workers (the precariat).

 

Encourage large companies to break their operations down to small units and discourage union membership to ensure workers are isolated and powerless to negotiate their fair share of the increases in productivity.

 

Create an atmosphere of threat and fear by encouraging companies to relocate if the political fixes to the labour market fail to keep wages low. 

 

Blame "greedy" workers and claim that China is the only country where manufacturing is viable, while ignoring the fact of Germany's export-driven success. Blame the Germans for not importing enough when the funny money runs out.

 

Put huge emphasis on the financial services sector and deliberately refuse to regulate (rehypothecation etc) so that it is more lucrative to invest in asset bubbles (property) than to invest in capital goods which create well-paid jobs, and allow American investors to avoid their country's regulation. 

 

Remove all risk from speculation.

 

I think that when you count up the advantages the rich have been gifted by the country's politicians, you have to accept that the rich have not got rich due to their virtues but by being in a position to influence power and dictate their own terms.

 

Dismissing any acknowledgement of this as envy, may be very comforting, but I don't think it is actually true.

[snowychap]

My comment on a previous page wasn't in support of Boris, simply pointing out the factual basis in his claim that the super rich pay nearly 1/3 of the entire tax take...

His claim was actually that the 'super rich' pay nearly 30% of the income tax and national insurance receipts not the entire tax take; I don't think that fact is a great basis for the attempted subsequent moral defence of this kind of income distribution.

[blandy]

 

 

Insofar as it's the business of government at all, I'm more concerned with trying to pull more people up than pulling a few people down

 

 

I don't think the Tories are trying to do that. I think they're basically focussed on trying to pull the very wealthy up even further, to protect an elite.

I was expressing my opinion of what any government's approach should be, not what the Tories are up to.  My comment on a previous page wasn't in support of Boris, simply pointing out the factual basis in his claim that the super rich pay nearly 1/3 of the entire tax take and what that actually means in terms of a contribution to society.

 

Of course we could continue this charade that's it all the evil rich Tories screwing everyone else, or maybe open our eyes, look across the chamber and notice that, actually, the official opposition are not short of a bob or two themselves..

 

Ed Miliband's Bollinger bolsheviks Despite the class-war rhetoric, Labour’s elite is still intensely comfortable with being filthy rich — and it’s becoming ever more so

 

Maybe then people might notice what a manufactured sham this whole "hooray for the rich! No, burn the rich!" argument actually is. 

 

With you all the way, till the last sentence, Jon.

As Chris says just above, it's not about Labour/Tories - when it comes to this problem, they're both guilty. I am not espousing a Party view. I loathe the tories, true, but I'm not suggesting Labour is somehow the solution. Sadly, they're not. If they were it would be easy.

 

Oh and by the way

Maybe then people might notice what a manufactured sham this whole "hooray for the rich! No, burn the rich!" argument actually is.

It isn't manufactured, even in that stereotype -  it's genuine feeling that what's the "established way" has utterly gone wrong, is wrong, and needs to be corrected. That the established parties won't or can't do it, is kind of incidental, yet is also part of the cause and the problem.

[snowychap]

Disappointed that Cameron's memories of London 0 Hull 4 didn't extend to some of the exhortations on the cover of the album.

[Jon]

Own goals from The Tories continuing apace:

 

 

 

10:31am Wed November 20th

 

7 comments

Margaret Thatcher’s press secretary Bernard Ingham has responded to a poll revealing that 39% of northerners would never vote Tory by calling them “demented” — and compares voters to cattle. With the survey by YouGov also revealing one in four people from the regions don’t even know someone who votes Conservative, the Yorkshireman slams his northern kindred in a column for the Yorkshire Post:

“But what worries me is the impression given by the 40 per cent who say they won’t [vote Tory]. At best it suggests closed minds, a certain bigotry. At worst it conveys an image of bovine stupidity”

Having extolled the virtues of George Osborne’s financial management, he continues:

“Against this background any Northerner who can never contemplate voting Conservative is clearly so demented as to be a danger to himself and his family – economically and socially suicidal.”

[Jon]

Disappointed that Cameron's memories of London 0 Hull 4 didn't extend to some of the exhortations on the cover of the album.

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Paul Heaton

Well, apparently David Cameron likes London 0 Hull 4. Which part of the attack on his policies and rich friends did he like best???

[coda]

He done the same thing with Eton Rifles. He's such a fraud.

[chrisp65]

I hope nobody here is suggesting a politician would claim to like something he's never heard of because some intern has told them it's a cool thing to latch on to!

 

You'll be telling me they don't regularly eat pasties next.

[Risso]

 

Disappointed that Cameron's memories of London 0 Hull 4 didn't extend to some of the exhortations on the cover of the album.

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Paul Heaton

Well, apparently David Cameron likes London 0 Hull 4. Which part of the attack on his policies and rich friends did he like best???

 

 

London 0 Hull 4 is my favourite album ever, and I know every word of every song, and the sleeve art is imprinted in my mind forever.  The sleeve notes contain the phrase "Take Jesus, Take Marx, Take Hope". As Paul Heaton has admitted he's not a Christian, I think having a go at Cameron for not agreeing with the contents of the album is a bit rich.

[chrisp65]

 

 

Disappointed that Cameron's memories of London 0 Hull 4 didn't extend to some of the exhortations on the cover of the album.

Facebook:

 

 

Paul Heaton

Well, apparently David Cameron likes London 0 Hull 4. Which part of the attack on his policies and rich friends did he like best???

 

 

London 0 Hull 4 is my favourite album ever, and I know every word of every song, and the sleeve art is imprinted in my mind forever.  The sleeve notes contain the phrase "Take Jesus, Take Marx, Take Hope". As Paul Heaton has admitted he's not a Christian, I think having a go at Cameron for not agreeing with the contents of the album is a bit rich.

 

 

but it was Housemartins, a collaborative effort, perhaps the Rev Dicky Coles was partly responsible?

[bickster]

Disappointed that Cameron's memories of London 0 Hull 4 didn't extend to some of the exhortations on the cover of the album.

Facebook:

 

 

Paul Heaton

Well, apparently David Cameron likes London 0 Hull 4. Which part of the attack on his policies and rich friends did he like best???

 

London 0 Hull 4 is my favourite album ever, and I know every word of every song, and the sleeve art is imprinted in my mind forever.  The sleeve notes contain the phrase "Take Jesus, Take Marx, Take Hope". As Paul Heaton has admitted he's not a Christian, I think having a go at Cameron for not agreeing with the contents of the album is a bit rich.

 

but it was Housemartins, a collaborative effort, perhaps the Rev Dicky Coles was partly responsible?

Rev Coles wasn't in the Housemartins. He was a sax player in Bronski Beat's live set up and then formed the Communards with wee Jimmy. That is the sum total of his musical career.

Heaton held Christian beliefs when he was a Housemartin, he has subsequently seen the light

EDIT: maybe for the celebs you've met topic but Rev Coles is a thoroughly decent intelligent bloke with an extremely sarcastic sense of humour. Met him a few times