Bolitics The New Condem Government

[AVFCforever1991]

Cameron is a dick head.

End of poem.

 

Bit insulting to Dick heads...

Edited November 1, 2013 by AVFCforever1991

[MakemineVanilla]

Cameron is a dick head.

End of poem.

 

What about a haiku?

 

David C. dick-head

People queue at the food-bank

He praises Jesus

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

Cameron is a dick head.

End of poem.

 

What about a haiku?

 

David C. dick-head

People queue at the food-bank

He praises Jesus

 

 

how about the Cameron family anthem

 

Apologies to the clash in advance but feel free to sing along

 

My daddy was a Taxdodger

But he never hurt nobody

He just loved to live that way

in Tax havens hid his money

Some is rich, and some is poor

That's the way I like it

But I don't believe in paying tax

like a payroll idiot

So I get to live it up

While plebs live in a hovel

Break your back we tax your pay

An'then I make you grovel

The old man spoke told me how

tax dodgers don't see prison

we write the laws to make it so

tax dodging ain't forbidden

c'mon plebs and pay more tax

we're all in this together

Didya really think i meant all of us?

tax dodging is for ever

Edited October 31, 2013 by mockingbird_franklin

[tonyh29]

Edit: attacks "green taxes" but then forgets that his GVmt introduced 60% of them -

Though his spin Dr's probably told him it would sound good on the news at 10 it's not actually true though

Two of the "green taxes" Ed refers to in his 60% figure are Energy Companies Obligation and Warm Home Discount ... Both of which are designed to help poorer families and both of which have nothing to do with being Green

Epic fail by Ed

[drat01]

Edit: attacks "green taxes" but then forgets that his GVmt introduced 60% of them -

Though his spin Dr's probably told him it would sound good on the news at 10 it's not actually true though

Two of the "green taxes" Ed refers to in his 60% figure are Energy Companies Obligation and Warm Home Discount ... Both of which are designed to help poorer families and both of which have nothing to do with being Green

Epic fail by Ed

fail? Oh Tony you really are still digging at the bottom of the barrel :-) so you are saying that all of the green taxes introduced by previous gvmt are bad? And that the two you mention are the whole 60% ? Me think the epic fail is you and the tory hq press machine that are peddling the rubbish. Never mind :-)

[blandy]

 

Edit: attacks "green taxes" but then forgets that his GVmt introduced 60% of them -

Though his spin Dr's probably told him it would sound good on the news at 10 it's not actually true though

Two of the "green taxes" Ed refers to in his 60% figure are Energy Companies Obligation and Warm Home Discount ... ....both of which have nothing to do with being Green

Epic fail by Ed

 

Not really. The ECO is to quote the Gov't's website

The ECO was introduced in January 2013 to reduce the UK’s energy consumption and support people living in fuel poverty. It does this by funding energy efficiency improvements worth around £1.3 billion every year.

Parliament passed the the Electricity and Gas (Energy Companies Obligation) Order 2012 on 4 December 2012 and it is now in effect. The ECO will run until March 2015, supporting the installation of energy efficiency measures in low-income households and areas, and in properties that are harder to treat. It works alongside the Green Deal to give consumers support and funding for energy efficiency improvements in their homes.

The Green Deal and the ECO will help reduce carbon emissions from the UK’s domestic building stock, which is an essential part of the UK’s plan to meet its statutory domestic carbon emission reduction targets by 2050.

.

The warm homes scheme, less so. But energy efficiency - using less of it is beneficial in multiple ways - it means less is needed to be generated, which means fewer power stations/ reactors/windmills. It means cheaper bills for people and it means less man made climate change. I know, let's scrap it.....

[tonyh29]

Edit: attacks "green taxes" but then forgets that his GVmt introduced 60% of them -

Though his spin Dr's probably told him it would sound good on the news at 10 it's not actually true though

Two of the "green taxes" Ed refers to in his 60% figure are Energy Companies Obligation and Warm Home Discount ... Both of which are designed to help poorer families and both of which have nothing to do with being Green

Epic fail by Ed

fail? Oh Tony you really are still digging at the bottom of the barrel :-) so you are saying that all of the green taxes introduced by previous gvmt are bad? And that the two you mention are the whole 60% ? Me think the epic fail is you and the tory hq press machine that are peddling the rubbish. Never mind :-)

Today in mathematics for dummies we will work on simple %'s

At no point did I say they were 100% of the taxes , I said that two of the taxes ed referred to are not green taxes ....

And they are not so Ed's claim is false

[tonyh29]

Edit: attacks "green taxes" but then forgets that his GVmt introduced 60% of them -

Though his spin Dr's probably told him it would sound good on the news at 10 it's not actually true though

Two of the "green taxes" Ed refers to in his 60% figure are Energy Companies Obligation and Warm Home Discount ... ....both of which have nothing to do with being Green

Epic fail by Ed

Not really. The ECO is to quote the Gov't's website

The ECO was introduced in January 2013 to reduce the UK’s energy consumption and support people living in fuel poverty. It does this by funding energy efficiency improvements worth around £1.3 billion every year.

Parliament passed the the Electricity and Gas (Energy Companies Obligation) Order 2012 on 4 December 2012 and it is now in effect. The ECO will run until March 2015, supporting the installation of energy efficiency measures in low-income households and areas, and in properties that are harder to treat. It works alongside the Green Deal to give consumers support and funding for energy efficiency improvements in their homes.

The Green Deal and the ECO will help reduce carbon emissions from the UK’s domestic building stock, which is an essential part of the UK’s plan to meet its statutory domestic carbon emission reduction targets by 2050.

.

The warm homes scheme, less so. But energy efficiency - using less of it is beneficial in multiple ways - it means less is needed to be generated, which means fewer power stations/ reactors/windmills. It means cheaper bills for people and it means less man made climate change. I know, let's scrap it.....

The Energy Companies Obligation is aimed at poorer consumers, although possibly it could be construed as 'green' seeing as it helps them become more energy efficient it is stretching credibility to claim it is a green tax .... We might as well say putting the price of petrol up to £10 a litre is a green tax as it will stop people driving or raising tax on cigarettes is a green tax as it will stop people smoking and polluting the air

The Warm Home Discount is simply to help some people pay their bills rather than any green tax

You know how politics works it's about saying something to grab the publics attention ... Cameron has gone for a headline grabber and Ed has made one up of his own to counter it ....both knowing that most people won't bother to check it

[MakemineVanilla]

The Tories put VAT on domestic energy supply because they thought making energy more expensive would allow them to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear. *

 

Now that they have got their new nuclear programme, they should remove the VAT.

 

This area of the debate seems to be being avoided.

 

* The public's loss of faith in nuclear all stemmed from the lies a previous Tory government told about the Windscale fire back in 1957.

[tonyh29]

The Tories put VAT on domestic energy supply because they thought making energy more expensive would allow them to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear. *

 

 

is there a link to this policy as I'd be interested to read a bit more about it

[snowychap]

You know how politics works it's about saying something to grab the publics attention ... Cameron has gone for a headline grabber and Ed has made one up of his own to counter it ....both knowing that most people won't bother to check it

Check it how and check what?

Cameron himself said (last week at PMQs - col 296), "...as I say, this is why we have to have an honest discussion about this, because the fact is that on our energy bills is £112 of green taxes and green regulations."

That suggests that he, Cameron, was referring to these figures from the DECC (from this Beeb article), doesn't it?

The point is whether or not Miliband and Cameron are talking about the same taxes, levies and so on and not whether you or anyone else actually regard them as 'green'.

[markavfc40]

 

The Tories put VAT on domestic energy supply because they thought making energy more expensive would allow them to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear. *

 

 

is there a link to this policy as I'd be interested to read a bit more about it

 

 

It was introduced in 1994 by Lamont at 8% and was supposed to rise to 17.5% in 1995 but the Tories lost the vote in parliament.

 

Under Labour it was reduced from 8% to 5% in 1997.

Edited November 1, 2013 by markavfc40

[tonyh29]

 

 

The Tories put VAT on domestic energy supply because they thought making energy more expensive would allow them to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear. *

 

 

is there a link to this policy as I'd be interested to read a bit more about it

 

 

It was introduced in 1994 by Lamont at 8% and was supposed to rise to 17.5% in 1995 but the Government lost the vote.

 

Under Labour it was reduced from 8% to 5% in 1997.

 

 

 

I mean specifically that VAT on fuel was introduced to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear  .....

[tonyh29]

 

You know how politics works it's about saying something to grab the publics attention ... Cameron has gone for a headline grabber and Ed has made one up of his own to counter it ....both knowing that most people won't bother to check it

Check it how and check what?

Cameron himself said (last week at PMQs - col 296), "...as I say, this is why we have to have an honest discussion about this, because the fact is that on our energy bills is £112 of green taxes and green regulations."

That suggests that he, Cameron, was referring to these figures from the DECC (from this Beeb article), doesn't it?

The point is whether or not Miliband and Cameron are talking about the same taxes, levies and so on and not whether you or anyone else actually regard them as 'green'.

 

 

well that's the point I made  ... lots of them aren't Green   ...

[MakemineVanilla]

 

The Tories put VAT on domestic energy supply because they thought making energy more expensive would allow them to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear. *

 

 

is there a link to this policy as I'd be interested to read a bit more about it

 

 

You are probably correct in questioning my assertion.

 

It is more likely that the Tories put VAT on fuel because they much prefer regressive taxation, which hits the poor disproportionately, rather than progressive taxes which hit the rich.

 

Apologies.

[snowychap]

well that's the point I made  ... lots of them aren't Green   ...

It was not the point you made, Tony.

You claimed an 'Epic fail by Ed' because you have a problem with the miscategorization of some of those taxes.

There is a place for semantic discussions and if your point had just been the one you made later decrying the laziness of soundbite politics (or an Epic fail by Cameron and Miliband (and Ofgem and the DECC)) then that would have worked.

It doesn't, however, work in support of your 'Epic fail by Ed' point if we accept that each of them was talking about the same constituent parts that make up the whole (i.e. Cameron and Miliband were both talking about the ECO and Warm Home discount amongst other things).

[tonyh29]

 

well that's the point I made  ... lots of them aren't Green   ...

It was not the point you made, Tony.

You claimed an 'Epic fail by Ed' because you have a problem with the miscategorization of some of those taxes.

There is a place for semantic discussions and if your point had just been the one you made later decrying the laziness of soundbite politics (or an Epic fail by Cameron and Miliband (and Ofgem and the DECC)) then that would have worked.

It doesn't, however, work in support of your 'Epic fail by Ed' point if we accept that each of them was talking about the same constituent parts that make up the whole (i.e. Cameron and Miliband were both talking about the ECO and Warm Home discount amongst other things).

 

it isn't 't my problem with the miscategorization ..it is Ed's and Drat's  (and Dave's ) 

 

the link you gave credits Cameron as saying "We need to roll back some of the green regulations and charges that are putting up bills. We all know who put them in place "  .. did he specifically mention the £112 during PMQ's  ?

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

 

 

The Tories put VAT on domestic energy supply because they thought making energy more expensive would allow them to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear. *

 

 

is there a link to this policy as I'd be interested to read a bit more about it

 

 

It was introduced in 1994 by Lamont at 8% and was supposed to rise to 17.5% in 1995 but the Government lost the vote.

 

Under Labour it was reduced from 8% to 5% in 1997.

 

 

 

I mean specifically that VAT on fuel was introduced to persuade the electorate to accept nuclear  .....

 

I actually agree, it is very unlikely it was introduced as a precursor or encouragement to develop nuclear power, however if evidence exists of such a policy i'd happily accept it to be true. Let's be honest in all likely hood, it is what it is, just another regressive and unfair tax tax of which the conservative party are so fond.

[snowychap]

it isn't 't my problem with the miscategorization ..it is Ed's and Drat's  (and Dave's ) 

It is your problem with what you view as their miscategorization.

the link you gave credits Cameron as saying "We need to roll back some of the green regulations and charges that are putting up bills. We all know who put them in place "  .. did he specifically mention the £112 during PMQ's  ?

The link I gave takes you to Hansard last Wednesday.

In giving that link to Hansard, I wrote:

Cameron himself said (last week at PMQs - col 296), "...as I say, this is why we have to have an honest discussion about this, because the fact is that on our energy bills is £112 of green taxes and green regulations."

So, those would be Cameron's specific words, as per Hansard col 296, specifically mentioning the £112 during PMQs as per the Hansard link given in the previous post where I quoted, verbatim, what Cameron was reported to have said at PMQs by Hansard. 

Also, this answer was in response to a question from Brian Binley (mentioning the effect of Mr Huhne’s unfortunate legacy which would imply that Camereon's response acknowledged that the £112 was at least in part due to actions of his own government).

Edited November 1, 2013 by snowychap

[Xann]

Super Tory Boy