Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Richard]

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see thatIn addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

You know he said those things soon after arriving in Britain before he even joined the Royal Navy, I'm sure your 18 year old self said somethings you no longer believe and you would think it unfair to be pilloried on them now surely? And as I assume that this is the case then why bother even mentioning it? Ah of course, must remain on message from Central Office.

hilarious. You obviously didn't understand the meaning of the sentence in my post after I quoted what he is supposed to have said.

I won't dignify the rest of your post with a comment.

[tonyh29]

Richard, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see that

In addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

 

you just broke the first rule of Bolitics club

[peterms]

 

peterms, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:06 PM, said:

 

tonyh29, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

yeah the timing is interesting isn't it  ... the article has been in the public domain for years and the Mail decide to run it now ( the conspiracy theorist in me would even say that they picked it up from VT as we discussed it a few days before they ran it    )

 

and as I said earlier Ed has come out of this rather well  and anything the Tories say in conference has been over shadowed and likely to be lost

 

I guess the million € question is , were the Tories behind it hoping to detract from some painful announcements  ..or were the Labs behind it to deflect form anything positive the Tories might have to say

 

 

but , nah ..surely politics doesn't work like that

Isn't it more a case of the Mail trying to take the shine off a fairly successful week for Labour, and misreading things?  Followed by twisting the knife and making it a bigger story for the rest of the media, and then putting Cameron is a position of either criticising them (bad idea for him) or else demonstrating that he's too much in hock to the tory press to criticise them (bad idea for him)?

 

I imagine the tory party image managers are pretty pissed off that the Mail have managed to place so much attention on all this.  Farage has Godfrey Bloom, and Cameron has Paul Dacre.

 

 

Wow and Bicks accused the poster before of being on message from Central Office

 

 

The poster is, the Mail isn't.

[Richard]

Richard, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see that

In addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

 

you just broke the first rule of Bolitics club

apologies I am not used to clubs having such rules, my butler normally informs me

[bickster]

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see thatIn addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

You know he said those things soon after arriving in Britain before he even joined the Royal Navy, I'm sure your 18 year old self said somethings you no longer believe and you would think it unfair to be pilloried on them now surely? And as I assume that this is the case then why bother even mentioning it? Ah of course, must remain on message from Central Office.

hilarious. You obviously didn't understand the meaning of the sentence in my post after I quoted what he is supposed to have said.

I won't dignify the rest of your post with a comment.

See that bit in bold, you obviously didn't type that, as Milliband is having to DEFEND something said about his father, not holding up his father as something to be attacked and that twist is exactly the on message bit I'm on about. Say how terrible it is whilst having a little dig at the same time.

[tonyh29]

bickster, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:05 PM, said:

 

Richard, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see that

In addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

You know he said those things soon after arriving in Britain before he even joined the Royal Navy, I'm sure your 18 year old self said somethings you no longer believe and you would think it unfair to be pilloried on them now surely? And as I assume that this is the case then why bother even mentioning it? Ah of course, must remain on message from Central Office.

 

 

 

you don't criticise other posters for copying and pasting from left foot forward  , so why can't  Richard be afforded the same courtesy ?

 

he offered an opinion that for all we know is his own view and not one that is "on message"  ...

[bickster]

bickster, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:05 PM, said:

 

Richard, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see that

In addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

You know he said those things soon after arriving in Britain before he even joined the Royal Navy, I'm sure your 18 year old self said somethings you no longer believe and you would think it unfair to be pilloried on them now surely? And as I assume that this is the case then why bother even mentioning it? Ah of course, must remain on message from Central Office.

 

 

you don't criticise other posters for copying and pasting from left foot forward  , so why can't  Richard be afforded the same courtesy ?

 

he offered an opinion that for all we know is his own view and not one that is "on message"  ...

You really want me to point out why and the difference?

[tonyh29]

bickster, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:40 PM, said:

 

tonyh29, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:24 PM, said:

 

bickster, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:05 PM, said:

bickster, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:05 PM, said:

 

Richard, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Richard, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see that

In addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

You know he said those things soon after arriving in Britain before he even joined the Royal Navy, I'm sure your 18 year old self said somethings you no longer believe and you would think it unfair to be pilloried on them now surely? And as I assume that this is the case then why bother even mentioning it? Ah of course, must remain on message from Central Office.

 

 

 

you don't criticise other posters for copying and pasting from left foot forward  , so why can't  Richard be afforded the same courtesy ?

 

he offered an opinion that for all we know is his own view and not one that is "on message"  ...

 

You really want me to point out why and the difference?

 

 

I'm aware of his background , and unless he has specifically asked for it to be made public on the forum ,my opinion would be that it shouldn't be  .. but yes please  ..I'd love to know why one poster appears to be singled out 

 

as I said he's not the only poster who appears to be able to use CTRL-C and CTRL V .. (though as he chopped the D off Milliband , it would suggest Richard can't either )

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

FFS.

 

"You almost wish they would lose the war"

 

Read the **** quote. Read it again. Again. Go on, one more time.

 

"You almost wish they would lose the war"

 

"You almost wish they would lose the war"

 

For a crowd pedants, this is something. Put the quote in context, understand it, and realise the Heil are as idiotic as they are cretinous and lecherous.

[Richard]

 

 

 

Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see thatIn addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views

You know he said those things soon after arriving in Britain before he even joined the Royal Navy, I'm sure your 18 year old self said somethings you no longer believe and you would think it unfair to be pilloried on them now surely? And as I assume that this is the case then why bother even mentioning it? Ah of course, must remain on message from Central Office.

 

hilarious. You obviously didn't understand the meaning of the sentence in my post after I quoted what he is supposed to have said.

I won't dignify the rest of your post with a comment.

 

See that bit in bold, you obviously didn't type that, as Milliband is having to DEFEND something said about his father, not holding up his father as something to be attacked and that twist is exactly the on message bit I'm on about. Say how terrible it is whilst having a little dig at the same time.

 

They are my words,  no one wrote them for me or sent me a message I had to copy and paste (interesting change there from putting words into someone's mouth as opposed to taking them out).  However clearly there is an issue with understanding them so let me try and be clearer.

 

In speeches given by Ed Milliband he has previously said that his father is a source of great inspiration to him.  Speeches designed to help him connect better with a public he hopes will make him PM one day.  No issue with that.

 

Now bearing that in mind ,  therefore,  it is not unrealistic to expect that there could and would be media interrogation into the man who is a source of inspiration to the man who wants to be PM,  into his views and what he believed.  You could see that and understand it no doubt.

 

Does that mean it is open season on the man being vilified and subject to personal attacks?  No,  but does it mean that media will be interested in what views he had and are those views in the public interest then considering that he inspired the man who would  be PM?  I'd say so yes.

 

No copyright Tory head office required.

[tonyh29]

CarewsEyebrowDesigner, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:46 PM, said:

FFS.

 

"You almost wish they would lose the war"

 

Read the **** quote. Read it again. Again. Go on, one more time.

 

"You almost wish they would lose the war"

 

"You almost wish they would lose the war"

 

For a crowd pedants, this is something. Put the quote in context, understand it, and realise the Heil are as idiotic as they are cretinous and lecherous.

 

sorry to be a pedant  but I think you need to quote it correctly  ( and in full to over the context  )

 

The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world...When you hear the English talk of this war you sometimes almost want them to lose it to show them how things are. They have the greatest contempt for the continent in general and for the French in particular...England first. This slogan is taken for granted by the English people as a whole. To lose their empire would be the worst possible humiliation

 

but now I'll be accused of defending the Mail !!!

[Richard]

 

 

but now I'll be accused of defending the Mail !!!

 

Or worse,  it seems,  me!  Considering I was the one who suggested he had said that after listening to the radio interview with the chumbawumba fan

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

sorry to be a pedant  but I think you need to quote it correctly  ( and in full to over the context  )

 

 

Aye, I was only quoting the quote quoted in this thread. Bloody quotes. Funny business.

[TrentVilla]

I'm a bit new to all this stuff about Milliband's dad, I've been busy having a life and all that but seeing as it has so many people hot under the collar I thought I'd look into it.

 

So, unless I'm missing something his dad wrote the following in a diary some 73 years ago.

 

The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world ... When you hear the English talk of this war you sometimes almost want them to lose it to show them how things are. They have the greatest contempt for the continent in general and for the French in particular. They didn't like the French before the defeat: (1) because they don't have order, (2) because they talk too much, (3) because they change their ministers every month, etc. Since the defeat, they have the greatest contempt for the French Army ... England first. This slogan is taken for granted by the English people as a whole. To lose their empire would be the worst possible humiliation.

 

Now because Milliband said his father was an inspiration to him this is being used as a stick to beat him with. Is that about the size of it? Or have I missed something?
 

Because if I haven't and that is it, I think it is rather pathetic and I don't even like Ed Milliband.

 

There is nothing in that quote to be offended about, he says "sometimes almost" so he is not once but twice quantifying what he says next. To read that as him saying he wants/wanted us to lose the war is in my view rather desperate. But then when taken in the wider context of the guys life and the fact he fled here and made it his home it is beyond logic.

 

At the time we probably were the most nationalistic people in Europe, we might still be and we do have a deep rooted dislike, distrust and general distain for the French. At the time losing our empire would have been seen by many as exactly what he says.

 

What is there to really take issue with? I just don't see it and I can't quite believe this is being used as some sort of political point scoring attack on Milliband. It is in my view rather desperate, rather pathetic and without anything close to any substance.

 

That has nothing to do with party politics, my political views or how I have or may vote in the future. Had this story been about Cameron and his dad I would say exactly the same.

 

This sort of thing is just pathetic and gets in the way far too frequently from the real politics and the real debates or conversations about things that matter because frankly this doesn't or not least from what I've seen about it.

 

[tonyh29]

TrentVilla, on 01 Oct 2013 - 2:16 PM, said:

I'm a bit new to all this stuff about Milliband's dad, I've been busy having a life and all that but seeing as it has so many people hot under the collar I thought I'd look into it.

 

So, unless I'm missing something his dad wrote the following in a diary some 73 years ago.

 

 

Quote

The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world ... When you hear the English talk of this war you sometimes almost want them to lose it to show them how things are. They have the greatest contempt for the continent in general and for the French in particular. They didn't like the French before the defeat: (1) because they don't have order, (2) because they talk too much, (3) because they change their ministers every month, etc. Since the defeat, they have the greatest contempt for the French Army ... England first. This slogan is taken for granted by the English people as a whole. To lose their empire would be the worst possible humiliation.

 

Now because Milliband said his father was an inspiration to him this is being used as a stick to beat him with. Is that about the size of it? Or have I missed something?

 

Because if I haven't and that is it, I think it is rather pathetic and I don't even like Ed Milliband.

 

There is nothing in that quote to be offended about, he says "sometimes almost" so he is not once but twice quantifying what he says next. To read that as him saying he wants/wanted us to lose the war is in my view rather desperate. But then when taken in the wider context of the guys life and the fact he fled here and made it his home it is beyond logic.

 

At the time we probably were the most nationalistic people in Europe, we might still be and we do have a deep rooted dislike, distrust and general distain for the French. At the time losing our empire would have been seen by many as exactly what he says.

 

What is there to really take issue with? I just don't see it and I can't quite believe this is being used as some sort of political point scoring attack on Milliband. It is in my view rather desperate, rather pathetic and without anything close to any substance.

 

That has nothing to do with party politics, my political views or how I have or may vote in the future. Had this story been about Cameron and his dad I would say exactly the same.

 

This sort of thing is just pathetic and gets in the way far too frequently from the real politics and the real debates or conversations about things that matter because frankly this doesn't or not least from what I've seen about it.

 

the story itself barely made a ripple in this thread tbh

 

the tsunami started because Cameron didn't hold a press conference to condemn the Mail  and therefore that makes him a vile person  .. oh and then there was the usual evil Tory and "their Supporters" bollocks

 

PS

38,313 posts suggests you don't have a life

Edited October 1, 2013 by tonyh29

[Richard]

What a sensible post trent

[drat01]

Tony again deflection . Trent and a few others have perfectly summed it up and if you agree with that sentiment then as this is about a political leader and the undercurrent nature of what the mail is saying you would expect Cameron et al when asked about it to condemn it. He didn't do that and despite you flip flopping as to what his reaction was that was a pretty poor thing from Cameron . Cameron has been shafted (maybe knowingly) by the mail and his reaction is seemingly one that exposes him to question and comment. Appreciate you may not like that but them the facts .

[tonyh29]

do you own the copyright on the word "deflection" and get royalties every time it's used  ?

 

 

Trent asked a question so I summed it up for him 

 

appreciate you may not like that but  ... well you know the rest

[TrentVilla]

I wouldn't expect Cameron to condemn it, I would be impressed and find it refreshing if he did I would think more of him for doing so but expect him to? No, not a chance. No political leader would be critical of one of his largest supporters in the media for running a story, which however weak or distasteful was designed to weaken his opponent.

 

Would politics be better if Cameron had done? Yes no question but it is unreasonable in my view to expect him to do so or to be overly critical of him for not doing when had the boot been on the other foot the result would have been the same I suspect.

 

Any yes Tony, you have a point but then you are an evil, dirty immoral Tory so therefore nobody takes any notice of what you say.

[Richard]

 

 

Any yes Tony, you have a point but then you are an evil, dirty immoral Tory so therefore nobody takes any notice of what you say.

you forgot nasty and vile.

 

Just saying like.