Bolitics The New Condem Government

[villaajax]

I'd like for us to all meet up one day and fight this out.

[tonyh29]

I'd like for us to all meet up one day and fight this out.

I'd like someone to translate snowy's last post into English !!

[snowychap]

It may be a tad garbled and tautologous (a good name for a pair of parakeets, perhaps?) but it's not that bad, surely?

Edited October 1, 2013 by snowychap

[tonyh29]

We get them in our garden

Parakeets that is not tautologous's

[Jon]

The Heil up to their usual nonsense:

 

Ed Miliband attacks Daily Mail for smearing his father

Labour leader reacts angrily to newspaper's suggestion that his father was an unpatriotic Marxist who 'hated Britain'

 

 

 

Ralph, Ed and David Miliband. Photograph: Guardian

Labour leader Ed Miliband was engaged in a bitter personal and political battle with the Daily Mail on Monday night, accusing the newspaper of smearing his father by asserting he was unpatriotic even though he had fought in the second world war for Britain against the Nazis.

Following discussions, the Mail's editor, Paul Dacre, agreed to publish a personal right of reply by Miliband, rebutting claims in a piece published on Saturday asserting that Miliband's father, Ralph, was a Jewish Marxist who hated Britain and its establishment.

The row has echoes of Miliband's decision to take on Rupert Murdoch's News International over phone hacking.

Ralph Miliband was a Jewish refugee who fled to Britain before the second world war and then fought for Britain. The original Mail article said he had no love of Britain and, indeed, hated the country.

In his piece published by the Mail on Tuesday, Miliband asserts: "It was June 1944 and the Allies were landing in Normandy. A 20-year-old man, who had arrived in Britain as a refugee just four years earlier, was part of that fight. He was my father. Fighting the Nazis and fighting for his adopted country.

"On Saturday, the Daily Mail chose to publish an article about him under the banner headline 'The Man Who Hated Britain.' It's part of our job description as politicians to be criticised and attacked by newspapers, including the Daily Mail. It comes with the territory. The British people have great wisdom to sort the fair from the unfair. And I have other ways of answering back.

"But my Dad is a different matter. He died in 1994. I loved him and he loved Britain. And there is no credible argument in the article or evidence from his life which can remotely justify the lurid headline and its accompanying claim that it would 'disturb everyone who loves this country'."

After defending his father and his patriotism, Miliband concludes that the Daily Mail article was of a different order to the normal criticism politicians faced. "I know they say 'you can't libel the dead' but you can smear them," the Labour leader writes.

"Fierce debate about politics does not justify character assassination of my father, questioning the patriotism of a man who risked his life for our country in the second world war or publishing a picture of his gravestone with a tasteless pun about him being a 'grave socialist'.

"The Daily Mail sometimes claims it stands for the best of British values of decency. But something has really gone wrong when it attacks the family of a politician – any politician – in this way. It would be true of an attack on the father of David Cameron, Nick Clegg, or mine.

"There was a time when politicians stayed silent if this kind of thing happened, in the hope that it wouldn't happen again. And fear that if they spoke out, it would make things worse. I will not do that. The stakes are too high for our country for politics to be conducted in this way. We owe it to Britain to have a debate which reflects the values of how we want the country run."

Although the Mail published Miliband's piece, it repeated its original claim and ran an editorial refusing to apologise over what it called an "evil legacy".

The Labour leader's office responded to the Mail editorial saying: "Ed Miliband wrote his right to reply article because he wanted to state clearly that his father loved Britain.

"He wanted the Daily Mail to treat his late father's reputation fairly. Rather than acknowledge it has smeared his father, the newspaper has repeated its original claim. This simply diminishes the Daily Mail further.

"It will be for people to judge whether this newspaper's treatment of a war veteran, Jewish refugee from the Nazis and distinguished academic reflects the values and decency we should all expect in our political debate."

The row comes at a sensitive time as the privy council decides this month whether to accept a royal charter proposed by leading newspaper groups or by the three main political parties.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Jon

[drat01]

It really is a vile rag of a newspaper. People publishing things like that - and anyone who then uses them as fact cos no doubt they will - really do need some serious looking at

[drat01]

Jon there is more to it than "nonsense" IMO gutter politics has now sinked to an all time low. Funny how the mail forget how they at the time supported hitler as proven by photos of their ownership and him

[Jon]

That 'newspaper' makes me feel sick ....

[villaajax]

Who reads that comic anyway, other than Blackshirts?

[peterms]

 

 

 

 But curiously, though it works directly against their own interest, they tend to defend millionaire tax avoiders.  The old tory trait of deference, I suppose.

 

 

You seemed quite keen to defend Ed Milliband's tax avoidance the other day. Is it OK if the millionaire is a Labour politician?

 

 

Your last comment on the subject acknowledged that you don't know if he avoided tax or not.

 

The question I asked was why, if the aim had been to avoid IHT, the property was placed partly in the names of the brothers at all.  You didn't answer that, other than saying without seeing the will, no conclusion can be drawn.

 

What have you found in the intervening time that now makes you think it was tax avoidance, when you didn't have a basis for stating that before?

 

And as Snowy has pointed out, my posts were questioning whether tax avoidance had occurred.  But you already know that.  Similarly, you already know that I have criticised Labour politician Margaret Hodge for her family's reported taxdodging.

 

So basically, you're talking nonsense.  More strangely, you knew when writing it that it was nonsense.

[bickster]

"Jewish Marxist", a Marxist with a family history of Judaism maybe but a Jewish Marxist is impossible.

The again Hitlers favourite newspaper probably still clings to the idea that the Jews are a race.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Excellent hat on Ralph.

[tonyh29]

The Heil up to their usual nonsense:

Ed Miliband attacks Daily Mail for smearing his father

Labour leader reacts angrily to newspaper's suggestion that his father was an unpatriotic Marxist who 'hated Britain'

Ralph, Ed and David Miliband. Photograph: Guardian

Labour leader Ed Miliband was engaged in a bitter personal and political battle with the Daily Mail on Monday night, accusing the newspaper of smearing his father by asserting he was unpatriotic even though he had fought in the second world war for Britain against the Nazis.

Following discussions, the Mail's editor, Paul Dacre, agreed to publish a personal right of reply by Miliband, rebutting claims in a piece published on Saturday asserting that Miliband's father, Ralph, was a Jewish Marxist who hated Britain and its establishment.

The row has echoes of Miliband's decision to take on Rupert Murdoch's News International over phone hacking.

Ralph Miliband was a Jewish refugee who fled to Britain before the second world war and then fought for Britain. The original Mail article said he had no love of Britain and, indeed, hated the country.

In his piece published by the Mail on Tuesday, Miliband asserts: "It was June 1944 and the Allies were landing in Normandy. A 20-year-old man, who had arrived in Britain as a refugee just four years earlier, was part of that fight. He was my father. Fighting the Nazis and fighting for his adopted country.

"On Saturday, the Daily Mail chose to publish an article about him under the banner headline 'The Man Who Hated Britain.' It's part of our job description as politicians to be criticised and attacked by newspapers, including the Daily Mail. It comes with the territory. The British people have great wisdom to sort the fair from the unfair. And I have other ways of answering back.

"But my Dad is a different matter. He died in 1994. I loved him and he loved Britain. And there is no credible argument in the article or evidence from his life which can remotely justify the lurid headline and its accompanying claim that it would 'disturb everyone who loves this country'."

After defending his father and his patriotism, Miliband concludes that the Daily Mail article was of a different order to the normal criticism politicians faced. "I know they say 'you can't libel the dead' but you can smear them," the Labour leader writes.

"Fierce debate about politics does not justify character assassination of my father, questioning the patriotism of a man who risked his life for our country in the second world war or publishing a picture of his gravestone with a tasteless pun about him being a 'grave socialist'.

"The Daily Mail sometimes claims it stands for the best of British values of decency. But something has really gone wrong when it attacks the family of a politician – any politician – in this way. It would be true of an attack on the father of David Cameron, Nick Clegg, or mine.

"There was a time when politicians stayed silent if this kind of thing happened, in the hope that it wouldn't happen again. And fear that if they spoke out, it would make things worse. I will not do that. The stakes are too high for our country for politics to be conducted in this way. We owe it to Britain to have a debate which reflects the values of how we want the country run."

Although the Mail published Miliband's piece, it repeated its original claim and ran an editorial refusing to apologise over what it called an "evil legacy".

The Labour leader's office responded to the Mail editorial saying: "Ed Miliband wrote his right to reply article because he wanted to state clearly that his father loved Britain.

"He wanted the Daily Mail to treat his late father's reputation fairly. Rather than acknowledge it has smeared his father, the newspaper has repeated its original claim. This simply diminishes the Daily Mail further.

"It will be for people to judge whether this newspaper's treatment of a war veteran, Jewish refugee from the Nazis and distinguished academic reflects the values and decency we should all expect in our political debate."

The row comes at a sensitive time as the privy council decides this month whether to accept a royal charter proposed by leading newspaper groups or by the three main political parties.

Tbf Ed's reply is rather a good one and I suspect Ed will come out of this rather better than the Mail

[Jon]

Yeah, I think that's thr case Tone. Bit of an O.G. from the Heil I think.

 

Few have the same level of bile and hatred as them, thankfully. I think Red Ed wil get some sympathy here from all quarters. Even Dave has offered some degree of support for his position on this.

[tonyh29]

Yeah, I think that's thr case Tone. Bit of an O.G. from the Heil I think.

Few have the same level of bile and hatred as them, thankfully. I think Red Ed wil get some sympathy here from all quarters. Even Dave has offered some degree of support for his position on this.

Doesn't excuse you putting it in the wrong thread though

[peterms]

 Even Dave has offered some degree of support for his position on this.

 

 

Mehdi Hasan ‏@mehdirhasan 4m

Cameron refuses to condemn Mail attack on dead dad while Jeremy Hunt joins in. Is Tory Party coordinating its attacks with the Mail? #nasty

[Jon]

 

 Even Dave has offered some degree of support for his position on this.

 

 

Mehdi Hasan ‏@mehdirhasan 4m

Cameron refuses to condemn Mail attack on dead dad while Jeremy Hunt joins in. Is Tory Party coordinating its attacks with the Mail? #nasty

 

He said on Radio 4 he understands Ed's position and he would defend his Dad from attack too. He SHOULD also come out and say what the Heil have done is wrong, granted .... I think if they don't, they're losing popularity points with the poeple here ....

 

Yeah, I think that's thr case Tone. Bit of an O.G. from the Heil I think.

Few have the same level of bile and hatred as them, thankfully. I think Red Ed wil get some sympathy here from all quarters. Even Dave has offered some degree of support for his position on this.

Doesn't excuse you putting it in the wrong thread though

 

Which thread should this be in?

[peterms]

For anyone who might have thought the term "Daily Heil" simply indicates that the Mail is pretty right wing, it actually refers to the keen support of its proprietor for Nazis, and Hitler.

 

Miliband's father fought Hitler; Lord Rothermere sucked up to him.

 

This is what makes the Mail's position not just nasty, offensive and wrong, but also mindbendingly hypocritical. 

 

[peterms]

[AVFCforever1991]

"If their ancestors had been equally stupid, Britain would have had no banking system" 

 

He makes out like that would be a bad thing...