Bolitics The New Condem Government

[peterms]

So I see tory party membership has fallen to new lows.  Halved under Cameron.  About 60 members in Liverpool, <200 in Newcastle, <300 in Manchester.  Astonishing.

 

But they are hanging out the flags for the dear former leaderine, with this conference stall.  Quite possibly handing out nail clippings and other things.  Weird people.  A kind of perverted religion.

 

[villaajax]

"And I believe in the end good will triumph" - Certainly did, 8th April 2013.

 

Manchester strikes me as a rather odd place... for a Tory conference.

[Jon]

"And I believe in the end good will triumph" - Certainly did, 8th April 2013.

 

Manchester strikes me as a rather odd place... for a Tory conference.

Very.

 

Did you see how little coverage the Union demonstration got yesterday. 50,000 + people claimed the streets of manchester ahead of this conference (protesting about cuts and saving the NHS), and next to no coverage for the standard media, especially the beeb.  I wonder why?

 

EDIT: sorry - this has all been covered on the prev page. D'oh.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jon

[Jon]

 

 

free prescriptions for all cancer patients was introduced in 2009, blah…

It really wasn't , the 2009 policy was only certain cancer drugs, many were still denied treatment

Cameron's policy extended the drugs involved that NICE hadn't approved

I know you claim to be neutral in politics but your anti Tory sentiment is shining through right about now

 

If fairly sure if you read the original post I said it was only an extension of the policy Labour started, yes it added a few more previously unavailable drugs …

I'm anti all three parties s you also know. Never claimed to be neutral though as I have opinions

 

To think (or rather misrepresent) that Bicks is politically 'neutral' really is a rather ignorant/misleading post. He has never claimed as such, as he states above.

[Jon]

 

 

So Tony - willing to state you were wrong? _ I suspect not

 

Oops

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24286582

 

 

On the BBC web page for all to see? ... yes, if you go to the Manchester news section, not as if it's on the main page.

 

It's bizzare isn't it?! One of the biggest, and peaceful, mass demonstrations of recent times, and it get next to no national media coverage. There's an agenda at work behind the scenes ....

[tonyh29]

There's one at work in the last 3 posts as well

[thetrees]

'Public sector workers don't like the Tories' is hardly news.

[mockingbird_franklin]

Meanwhile Poor Iain Dunce Smith has suffered a little setback in his persecution of the sick and disabled, not only content with moving the goalposts and making it more difficult due to financial constraints to appeal against decisions, that when challenged are proven to be incorrect for 40% of cases appealed, and nearly 100% of cases appealed were legal or expert representation is used he wanted to avoid all that inconvenient parliamentary democracy business to get through some more rules to make life a little harder for them

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/30/iain-duncan-smith-sick-disabled-benefits

 

Minister looking at making it harder for sick and disabled to claim benefits

Iain Duncan Smith told he would not legally be able to introduce secondary legislation to make changes, DWP documents show

 

Iain Duncan Smith is examining how to make it harder for sick and disabled people to claim benefits, according to leaked documents from the Department of Work and Pensions.

The documents show civil servants advised the work and pensions secretary that he would not legally be able to introduce secondary legislation – which does not need a parliamentary vote – in order to give jobcentre staff more powers to make employment and support allowance (ESA) claimants undergo further tasks to prove they are trying as hard as possible to get back into work.

The powers being discussed in the seven pages of official guidance – addressed to Duncan Smith – also include forcing sick and disabled people to take up offers of work. If those with serious but time-limited health conditions refuse the offer, DWP staff would then have the power to strip them of their benefits.

The revelation comes as the DWP told the Guardian it had indefinitely postponed a week-long staff "celebration" of a new, tougher sanctions regime for more than a million job seekers.

In a separate memo also leaked to the Guardian, staff and organisations involved in delivering the failing Work Programme, were due to start "conditionality week" on Monday. The event, according to the memo , is "about celebrating how far we have come since new tougher sanction levels were introduced last year ... and about helping us smooth the way for universal credit, working better together and making sure we apply the rules consistently and fairly".

Mark Serwotka, the general secretary of the PCS union, which represents thousands of DWP staff, said: "It is distasteful in the extreme and grossly offensive that the DWP would even consider talking about celebrating cutting people's benefits."

In the seven pages of frank official advice dated 29 August, civil servants admit that reforms to the old incapacity benefits system had delivered some gains but there were still "several significant problems".

They say that still only half of claimants on the newly introduced category of ESA work-related activity group (WRAG) were coming off the benefit by three years.

The DWP says hundreds of millions of pounds are being tied up in administration of the benefit including the work capability assessments and appeals process. The document admits that ESA changes were attracting a lot of negative attention.

The paper says the DWP can get sick and disabled people to undertake "CV writing, attend a training course or do work experience".

The document warns Duncan Smith that he cannot simply issue a ministerial order to make those who have been found unfit for work to look for, or take up work. Fresh primary legislation would be needed, but he fears parliament does not have time for that process before the 2015 general election.

Part of the solution to getting the temporarily sick back into work lies with employers doing their bit to retain sick staff, the document says, but it acknowledges that envisaged ESA reform is unlikely to achieve this goal.

"The short answer therefore is that there is nothing we can do with secondary legislation to increase conditionality requirements on an ESA WRAG claimant," the document says.

Paul Farmer, the chief executive of the mental health charity Mind, said: "As people with mental health problems continue to struggle to access the support they need, the repeated response from the government is to crank up the pressure and potential punishments for those being supported by benefits.

"People with mental health problems face significant barriers to finding and staying in work. The government should be ensuring that people are supported to overcome these barriers rather than threatening people with a loss of income. This pressure often exacerbates people's mental health problems and pushes them further from work rather than closer to it."

The DWP said it would not comment on leaks. "Officials give advice to ministers all the time – some of which is acted upon, and some of which isn't," a spokesperson said. "It is only right that benefits come with conditions to ensure that people do all they can to move off benefits and into work if they are able.

"Our primary aim is to help people into jobs, while supporting those who are too ill to work, so it is important that staff and external providers are able to share best practice and ensure rules are applied consistently and fairly."

Edited September 30, 2013 by mockingbird_franklin

[villaajax]

Ooh, how nasty! He's a Tory alright!

[mockingbird_franklin]

And meanwhile in Westminster, the nice people party are at it again.

 

Feeding homeless to be banned by Tory-run Westminster council  

1 Mar 2011 00:00

THEY spent much of the run-up to the election trying shake off their image as the nasty party.

 

THEY spent much of the run-up to the election trying shake off their image as the nasty party.

But a heartless group of Tories have ­revealed their true colours by banning charities from running soup kitchens for the ­homeless.

Conservative Westminster council in Central London also wants to make it an offence to sleep rough – while slashing £5million of funding to hostels.

Astonishingly, town hall chiefs claimed soup kitchens only “encourage” people to sleep on the streets.

Westminster council, one of the richest in the land, wants to bring in a bylaw making it an offence to “give out food for free”, punishable by fines. The twisted move blows apart David Cameron’s Big Society boast that an army of ­volunteers will flock to help those worse off.

And it sparked a storm of ­criticism. Reverend Alison Tomlin of the Methodist church in ­Westminster said: “The proposals are nothing short of disgusting. This bylaw punishes people solely for their misfortune and belongs in a ­Victorian statute book, not the 21st century.”

Labour’s London mayoral ­candidate Ken Livingstone added: “Only the Conservatives would try to make it illegal to give food to the homeless.

“With Tory mayor Boris Johnson cutting affordable housing to a trickle, the number of people sleeping on the streets is rising and cuts to housing benefit threaten ­thousands more with eviction and homelessness.”

Councillor Paul Dimoldenberg, leader of the Labour Group, said: “Nothing illustrates the cold-hearted and callous approach of the Conservatives than this attempt to criminalise those offering help to ­homeless people.

“I thought this was what the Big Society was supposed to be all about, generous-hearted people giving their time to those less fortunate, at no cost to the public purse. This is a nasty, mean move from a nasty, mean party.”

A consultation paper says rough sleeping and soup runs would be banned in the Westminster Cathedral Piazza and surrounding area. Labour said the cruel move comes as the council ­withdraws funding for three hostels in the borough and housing trust.

But Westminster’s Daniel Astaire risked provoking further fury by declaring free food “keeps people on the street longer”. He added: “Soup runs have no place in the 21st century. It is undignified that people are being fed on the streets. They actually encourage people to sleep rough with all the dangers that entails. Our priority is to get people off the streets altogether. We have a range of services that can help do that.”

A council spokesman said soup runs attract up to 100 people at a time, “making it a no-go area for residents, with issues around litter, urination, violence and disorder”.

3Tory councillor John Fareham has apologised after calling opponents of Hull council’s £65million cuts “retards” on Twitter. He said: “I got it wrong.”

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/feeding-homeless-to-be-banned-by-tory-run-westminster-113433#ixzz2gNUpmkbx
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

[peterms]

Meanwhile Poor Iain Dunce Smith has suffered a little setback in his persecution of the sick and disabled, not only content with moving the goalposts and making it more difficult due to financial constraints to appeal against decisions, that when challenged are proven to be incorrect for 40% of cases appealed, and nearly 100% of cases appealed were legal or expert representation is used

Better crack on and make it illegal for the blighters to have legal representation, then.  That way wrong decisions can go unchalleged.

[mockingbird_franklin]

Ooh, how nasty! He's a Tory alright!

Is Tory word filter replacement for Toss3r

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

Meanwhile Poor Iain Dunce Smith has suffered a little setback in his persecution of the sick and disabled, not only content with moving the goalposts and making it more difficult due to financial constraints to appeal against decisions, that when challenged are proven to be incorrect for 40% of cases appealed, and nearly 100% of cases appealed were legal or expert representation is used

Better crack on and make it illegal for the blighters to have legal representation, then.  That way wrong decisions can go unchalleged.

 

He's probably seeing if he legally can right now, he definitely is a real striver and works hard at kicking the sick and disabled when they are down, but I guess he's hoping mandatory assessment before being allowed appeal will prevent an awful lots of appeals, IF you disagree with a decision you have to request a mandatory reassessment (which used to happen anyhow before if you appealed) but now your payments are stopped until the reassessment has taken place, and there are no time limits on how long the assessment can take, if they want to take a year they can, benefits are only reinstated when you launch your appeal, which you can't until the reassessment has taken place and a decision reached. The claimant also has to apply directly themselves to the tribunal service with an appeal.

[tonyh29]

mockingbird_franklin, on 30 Sept 2013 - 1:22 PM, said:

 

And meanwhile in Westminster, the nice people party are at it again.

 

Feeding homeless to be banned by Tory-run Westminster council  

1 Mar 2011 00:00

THEY spent much of the run-up to the election trying shake off their image as the nasty party.

 

THEY spent much of the run-up to the election trying shake off their image as the nasty party.

But a heartless group of Tories have ­revealed their true colours by banning charities from running soup kitchens for the ­homeless.

Conservative Westminster council in Central London also wants to make it an offence to sleep rough – while slashing £5million of funding to hostels.

Astonishingly, town hall chiefs claimed soup kitchens only “encourage” people to sleep on the streets.

Westminster council, one of the richest in the land, wants to bring in a bylaw making it an offence to “give out food for free”, punishable by fines. The twisted move blows apart David Cameron’s Big Society boast that an army of ­volunteers will flock to help those worse off.

And it sparked a storm of ­criticism. Reverend Alison Tomlin of the Methodist church in ­Westminster said: “The proposals are nothing short of disgusting. This bylaw punishes people solely for their misfortune and belongs in a ­Victorian statute book, not the 21st century.”

Labour’s London mayoral ­candidate Ken Livingstone added: “Only the Conservatives would try to make it illegal to give food to the homeless.

“With Tory mayor Boris Johnson cutting affordable housing to a trickle, the number of people sleeping on the streets is rising and cuts to housing benefit threaten ­thousands more with eviction and homelessness.”

Councillor Paul Dimoldenberg, leader of the Labour Group, said: “Nothing illustrates the cold-hearted and callous approach of the Conservatives than this attempt to criminalise those offering help to ­homeless people.

“I thought this was what the Big Society was supposed to be all about, generous-hearted people giving their time to those less fortunate, at no cost to the public purse. This is a nasty, mean move from a nasty, mean party.”

A consultation paper says rough sleeping and soup runs would be banned in the Westminster Cathedral Piazza and surrounding area. Labour said the cruel move comes as the council ­withdraws funding for three hostels in the borough and housing trust.

But Westminster’s Daniel Astaire risked provoking further fury by declaring free food “keeps people on the street longer”. He added: “Soup runs have no place in the 21st century. It is undignified that people are being fed on the streets. They actually encourage people to sleep rough with all the dangers that entails. Our priority is to get people off the streets altogether. We have a range of services that can help do that.”

A council spokesman said soup runs attract up to 100 people at a time, “making it a no-go area for residents, with issues around litter, urination, violence and disorder”.

3Tory councillor John Fareham has apologised after calling opponents of Hull council’s £65million cuts “retards” on Twitter. He said: “I got it wrong.”

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/feeding-homeless-to-be-banned-by-tory-run-westminster-113433#ixzz2gNUpmkbx

Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

 

 

 

I think if you look beyond the headline which appears misleading ,  this is the key bit

 

banned in the Westminster Cathedral Piazza and surrounding area

 

so in other words , you can have the soup kitchen a couple of hundred yards around the corner from where it might currently be based ?

[tonyh29]

peterms, on 30 Sept 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

So I see tory party membership has fallen to new lows.  Halved under Cameron.  About 60 members in Liverpool, <200 in Newcastle, <300 in Manchester.  Astonishing.

 

But they are hanging out the flags for the dear former leaderine, with this conference stall.  Quite possibly handing out nail clippings and other things.  Weird people.  A kind of perverted religion.

 

 

 

it is a bit on the sad side  I must admit .. but then people that go to a party conference are , well a bit weird aren't they  ( and I don't' just mean the Labour front bench  )

[drat01]

Tony - basically you have missed everything in the report with the desire to try and prove that this policy is OK.

 

So key phrases like

 

"Conservative Westminster council in Central London also wants to make it an offence to sleep rough – while slashing £5million of funding to hostels."

"town hall chiefs claimed soup kitchens only “encourage” people to sleep on the streets."

"Westminster council, one of the richest in the land, wants to bring in a bylaw making it an offence to “give out food for free”, punishable by fines."

"3Tory councillor John Fareham has apologised after calling opponents of Hull council’s £65million cuts “retards” on Twitter. He said: “I got it wrong."

 

Frankly in a modern society, and I appreciate Right wingers (I know you lot don't like the phrase Tory supporters etc) don't exactly believe in society, what Westminster Council is saying and doing is obscene. If as you are trying to make out this was a complete mis report of what is happening, I would love to see how you reconcile the points I have hi-lighted above

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

mockingbird_franklin, on 30 Sept 2013 - 1:22 PM, said:

 

And meanwhile in Westminster, the nice people party are at it again.

 

Feeding homeless to be banned by Tory-run Westminster council  

1 Mar 2011 00:00

THEY spent much of the run-up to the election trying shake off their image as the nasty party.

 

THEY spent much of the run-up to the election trying shake off their image as the nasty party.

But a heartless group of Tories have ­revealed their true colours by banning charities from running soup kitchens for the ­homeless.

Conservative Westminster council in Central London also wants to make it an offence to sleep rough – while slashing £5million of funding to hostels.

Astonishingly, town hall chiefs claimed soup kitchens only “encourage” people to sleep on the streets.

Westminster council, one of the richest in the land, wants to bring in a bylaw making it an offence to “give out food for free”, punishable by fines. The twisted move blows apart David Cameron’s Big Society boast that an army of ­volunteers will flock to help those worse off.

And it sparked a storm of ­criticism. Reverend Alison Tomlin of the Methodist church in ­Westminster said: “The proposals are nothing short of disgusting. This bylaw punishes people solely for their misfortune and belongs in a ­Victorian statute book, not the 21st century.”

Labour’s London mayoral ­candidate Ken Livingstone added: “Only the Conservatives would try to make it illegal to give food to the homeless.

“With Tory mayor Boris Johnson cutting affordable housing to a trickle, the number of people sleeping on the streets is rising and cuts to housing benefit threaten ­thousands more with eviction and homelessness.”

Councillor Paul Dimoldenberg, leader of the Labour Group, said: “Nothing illustrates the cold-hearted and callous approach of the Conservatives than this attempt to criminalise those offering help to ­homeless people.

“I thought this was what the Big Society was supposed to be all about, generous-hearted people giving their time to those less fortunate, at no cost to the public purse. This is a nasty, mean move from a nasty, mean party.”

A consultation paper says rough sleeping and soup runs would be banned in the Westminster Cathedral Piazza and surrounding area. Labour said the cruel move comes as the council ­withdraws funding for three hostels in the borough and housing trust.

But Westminster’s Daniel Astaire risked provoking further fury by declaring free food “keeps people on the street longer”. He added: “Soup runs have no place in the 21st century. It is undignified that people are being fed on the streets. They actually encourage people to sleep rough with all the dangers that entails. Our priority is to get people off the streets altogether. We have a range of services that can help do that.”

A council spokesman said soup runs attract up to 100 people at a time, “making it a no-go area for residents, with issues around litter, urination, violence and disorder”.

3Tory councillor John Fareham has apologised after calling opponents of Hull council’s £65million cuts “retards” on Twitter. He said: “I got it wrong.”

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/feeding-homeless-to-be-banned-by-tory-run-westminster-113433#ixzz2gNUpmkbx

Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

 

 

 

I think if you look beyond the headline which appears misleading ,  this is the key bit

 

 

 

banned in the Westminster Cathedral Piazza and surrounding area

 

so in other words , you can have the soup kitchen a couple of hundred yards around the corner from where it might currently be based ?

 

I guess it depends on the definition of surrounding area, the surrounding area doesn't have a exact definition, For instance, You could say Hitler caused a little trouble in Germany and the surrounding area,

Edited September 30, 2013 by mockingbird_franklin

[drat01]

The side show that is going on at the Tory conference is an interesting one. It seems that organisation such as the British Fur Trade etc have a stand there. Why exactly would they do that? Also there seems to be a whole set of high end food suppliers selling very expensive food articles, again what place do these have at a political conference, except to show the type of attendees or to provide some sort of lobbying?

[mockingbird_franklin]

So I see tory party membership has fallen to new lows.  Halved under Cameron.  About 60 members in Liverpool, <200 in Newcastle, <300 in Manchester.  Astonishing.

 

But they are hanging out the flags for the dear former leaderine, with this conference stall.  Quite possibly handing out nail clippings and other things.  Weird people.  A kind of perverted religion.

 

I'd consider some Maggie Thatcher toilet roll, Then I can do to her image, what she did to a large proportion of this country and it's citizens

[tonyh29]

drat01, on 30 Sept 2013 - 1:47 PM, said:drat01, on 30 Sept 2013 - 1:47 PM, said:

Tony - basically you have missed everything in the report with the desire to try and prove that this policy is OK.

 

So key phrases like

 

"Conservative Westminster council in Central London also wants to make it an offence to sleep rough – while slashing £5million of funding to hostels."

"town hall chiefs claimed soup kitchens only “encourage” people to sleep on the streets."

"Westminster council, one of the richest in the land, wants to bring in a bylaw making it an offence to “give out food for free”, punishable by fines."

"3Tory councillor John Fareham has apologised after calling opponents of Hull council’s £65million cuts “retards” on Twitter. He said: “I got it wrong."

 

Frankly in a modern society, and I appreciate Right wingers (I know you lot don't like the phrase Tory supporters etc) don't exactly believe in society, what Westminster Council is saying and doing is obscene. If as you are trying to make out this was a complete mis report of what is happening, I would love to see how you reconcile the points I have hi-lighted above

 

 

 

Well trying to find another source for this , other than the mirror , seemed quite difficult  .. most of the returns from google show that  this story raised it's head back in 2011 

 

and then a closer look reveals that the article MBF linked to is also dated 2011

 

So

 

 

Forgive me if I don't come back to you on the points you've raised   ....  I fear I'm only as far as 2009 in clearing my backlog and I need a couple more years 

Edited September 30, 2013 by tonyh29