tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Re The myth on cuts Brown was against them and refused to mention them in the build up to the election He was badgered by Balls and Mandelson to do so and eventually relented and mentioned Cuts at a TUC speech .. And then rounded on Balls etc saying I hope you are satisfied The other myth whilst we are at it is that Darling wanted to increase VAT to 18 or 19% ... Brown did over rule him on that one , but its interesting none the less And this is from Mandelson's book before I get accused of making things up Of course Mandelson has probably joined Murdoch on the evil since 2010 list Wrong on so many counts Tony Take it up with Mandelson then , they are his words not mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Utility co's should never have been privatised and we all know which witch is to blame there I thought a lot of the utility companies were privatised by the " ahhh but " party ? 1990 - National Power, Grid and Powergen formed - damn you Labour gvmt of the time 1991 - Scottish Power industry privatised - damn you Labour gvmt of the time 1992 - NI power industry privatised - damn you Labour gvmt of the time ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Take it up with Mandelson then , they are his words not mine I mistakenly read that as 'take it up the Mandelson then'. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Labour didn't cause the global recession. Clearly. They did, as did the tories before them, do the same things that caused recessions elesewhere - fail to regulate enough. They weren't the cause, they were, along with the tories, and recieved political western orthodoxy, in paert to blame. When they were hoofed out, the econonmy was growing, and the debt was less than the one they inherited from the tories. The acts of the current gov't have hampered recovery. The recovery is despite, instead of because of.... As for the NHS, and PPI and so on, Labour started it, the tories have massively extended it. The NHS should not be left in a condition of unchanging circumstances It could be a heck of a lot better. There are endemic problems. But the solutions are lost in arguments about who what and where. There are countries with better health services, which are in effect privately run, yet available to all. Ours is not the best, not an example to the world being ruined (just) by tory cuts, or privatisation. The argument is mad. What matters is how good it is, not how it is structured or paid for, other than ensuring it is available to all. It shouldn't be run for profit, UNLESS, there is absolute evidence that would bering about a better service. It shouldn't be run for ever in the way it is or was, just because of nostalgia. There's an appalling culture of complacency and management irresponsibility within parts of it. Other parts are brilliant. They're the ones where people, not ideology come first. And they're the best resourced ones. Privatisation doesn't make nurses ignore patients, or doctors mis-diagnose and then cover up. It doesn't make people racist, ageist or uncaring. Those are the things that need sorting out the most. I've waited a long time for a balanced post on the NHS , rather than "its wonderful" and the " Tories want to destroy it " Long overdue but well put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Re The myth on cuts Brown was against them and refused to mention them in the build up to the election He was badgered by Balls and Mandelson to do so and eventually relented and mentioned Cuts at a TUC speech .. And then rounded on Balls etc saying I hope you are satisfied The other myth whilst we are at it is that Darling wanted to increase VAT to 18 or 19% ... Brown did over rule him on that one , but its interesting none the less And this is from Mandelson's book before I get accused of making things up Of course Mandelson has probably joined Murdoch on the evil since 2010 list Wrong on so many counts Tony Take it up with Mandelson then , they are his words not mine But Tony then how do you reconcile your stance that Balls didn't want to make cuts? - Or how do you reconcile the fact that cuts were mentioned pre election and in the manifesto? or how do you reconcile that even in the "evidence" you give it seems that Balls was convinced that cuts were needed? You see Tony you are now spinning round and round trying to concoct a story and changing your views more times than ever. It's as though you were / are just trying to make an argument to deflect from questioning of this Gvmt - heaven forbid that anyone should think that ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Utility co's should never have been privatised and we all know which witch is to blame there I thought a lot of the utility companies were privatised by the " ahhh but " party ? 1990 - National Power, Grid and Powergen formed - damn you Labour gvmt of the time 1991 - Scottish Power industry privatised - damn you Labour gvmt of the time 1992 - NI power industry privatised - damn you Labour gvmt of the time ....... Its true , you don't read posts The wording was " a lot " NOT "all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Re The myth on cuts Brown was against them and refused to mention them in the build up to the election He was badgered by Balls and Mandelson to do so and eventually relented and mentioned Cuts at a TUC speech .. And then rounded on Balls etc saying I hope you are satisfied The other myth whilst we are at it is that Darling wanted to increase VAT to 18 or 19% ... Brown did over rule him on that one , but its interesting none the less And this is from Mandelson's book before I get accused of making things up Of course Mandelson has probably joined Murdoch on the evil since 2010 list Wrong on so many counts Tony Take it up with Mandelson then , they are his words not mine But Tony then how do you reconcile your stance that Balls didn't want to make cuts? - Or how do you reconcile the fact that cuts were mentioned pre election and in the manifesto? or how do you reconcile that even in the "evidence" you give it seems that Balls was convinced that cuts were needed? You see Tony you are now spinning round and round trying to concoct a story and changing your views more times than ever. It's as though you were / are just trying to make an argument to deflect from questioning of this Gvmt - heaven forbid that anyone should think that ..... Time for you to go and find a post where I've said Balls didn't want to make cuts I guess Somebody else said it a few pages ago but 'twasn't me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 You see Tony you are now spinning round and round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Take it up with Mandelson then , they are his words not mine I mistakenly read that as 'take it up the Mandelson then'. Apologies. The eye sees what the mind craves snowy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Utility co's should never have been privatised and we all know which witch is to blame there I thought a lot of the utility companies were privatised by the " ahhh but " party ? 1990 - National Power, Grid and Powergen formed - damn you Labour gvmt of the time 1991 - Scottish Power industry privatised - damn you Labour gvmt of the time 1992 - NI power industry privatised - damn you Labour gvmt of the time ....... Its true , you don't read posts The wording was " a lot " NOT "all" You obviously dont understand what was posted then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Re The myth on cuts Brown was against them and refused to mention them in the build up to the election He was badgered by Balls and Mandelson to do so and eventually relented and mentioned Cuts at a TUC speech .. And then rounded on Balls etc saying I hope you are satisfied The other myth whilst we are at it is that Darling wanted to increase VAT to 18 or 19% ... Brown did over rule him on that one , but its interesting none the less And this is from Mandelson's book before I get accused of making things up Of course Mandelson has probably joined Murdoch on the evil since 2010 list Wrong on so many counts Tony Take it up with Mandelson then , they are his words not mine But Tony then how do you reconcile your stance that Balls didn't want to make cuts? - Or how do you reconcile the fact that cuts were mentioned pre election and in the manifesto? or how do you reconcile that even in the "evidence" you give it seems that Balls was convinced that cuts were needed? You see Tony you are now spinning round and round trying to concoct a story and changing your views more times than ever. It's as though you were / are just trying to make an argument to deflect from questioning of this Gvmt - heaven forbid that anyone should think that ..... Time for you to go and find a post where I've said Balls didn't want to make cuts I guess Somebody else said it a few pages ago but 'twasn't me I wonder Tony who once posted "Ok ... it's just I could have sworn Balls was proposing that we spend our way out of our troubles and that the Government approach was wrong .... and yet it doesn't appear that any of the countries coming out the other side spent their way out ???" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 The health service is certainly in better hands under Labour - they virtually bust our economy with the massive spending on it during their tenure, which is borne out by how long it is taking the present government to bring the deficit down.How on earth is it 'borne out', precisely? This was in reference to the post quoted, which referred to th 'vindictive' Tory cuts, and the fact that they had hardly made an impact on the deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Sorry but I must have missed something. I don't think that anything there is bearing out anything else. You weren't surely putting down the lack of a reduction in the deficit under the Tories to NHS spending under Labour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Re The myth on cuts Brown was against them and refused to mention them in the build up to the election He was badgered by Balls and Mandelson to do so and eventually relented and mentioned Cuts at a TUC speech .. And then rounded on Balls etc saying I hope you are satisfied The other myth whilst we are at it is that Darling wanted to increase VAT to 18 or 19% ... Brown did over rule him on that one , but its interesting none the less And this is from Mandelson's book before I get accused of making things up Of course Mandelson has probably joined Murdoch on the evil since 2010 list Wrong on so many counts Tony Take it up with Mandelson then , they are his words not mine But Tony then how do you reconcile your stance that Balls didn't want to make cuts? - Or how do you reconcile the fact that cuts were mentioned pre election and in the manifesto? or how do you reconcile that even in the "evidence" you give it seems that Balls was convinced that cuts were needed? You see Tony you are now spinning round and round trying to concoct a story and changing your views more times than ever. It's as though you were / are just trying to make an argument to deflect from questioning of this Gvmt - heaven forbid that anyone should think that ..... Time for you to go and find a post where I've said Balls didn't want to make cuts I guess Somebody else said it a few pages ago but 'twasn't me I wonder Tony who once posted "Ok ... it's just I could have sworn Balls was proposing that we spend our way out of our troubles and that the Government approach was wrong .... and yet it doesn't appear that any of the countries coming out the other side spent their way out ???" Close but no buffalo .... you need to try harder I'm afraid Hint - Balls bloomberg speech will point you in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Remember, the 1966 Football and 2003 Rugby World cups were won under Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 26, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2013 (edited) This prick looks like a fish I always knew it but I never realised how much. Edited September 26, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Just flicked over to QTDid Douglas Alexander just say "Ed will be an effective PM "Don't we have to have an election first ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 26, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2013 (edited) Just flicked over to QT Did Douglas Alexander just say "Ed will be an effective PM " Don't we have to have an election first ? The question was 'Will* Red Ed make an good PM?' EDIT: *'Would' even Edited September 26, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Gove is good at this isn't he Cue , labourites saying No Just flicked over to QT Did Douglas Alexander just say "Ed will be an effective PM " Don't we have to have an election first ? The question was 'Will* Red Ed make an good PM?' EDIT: *'Would' even Ah , didn't hear the question ... I'll let him off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 26, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2013 (edited) I did laugh a couple of times. Doesn't stop him being a word removed who knows naff all about education though I even acknowledged today that he'd made a good leader (not of what, mind) Edited September 26, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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