Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Eames]

 

without any source material that picture could really be anything though .. it's hardly evidence of racist Britain , especially when one of the border officers is black

Racist policies don't stop being racist when you pay some black people to get involved in implementing them.

 

And you know for a fact that in the specific circumstance you pictured that the BA are being "racist" as opposed to acting on specific information in relation to someone matching that individual's description? 

[peterms]

without any source material that picture could really be anything though .. it's hardly evidence of racist Britain , especially when one of the border officers is black

Racist policies don't stop being racist when you pay some black people to get involved in implementing them.

And you know for a fact that in the specific circumstance you pictured that the BA are being "racist" as opposed to acting on specific information in relation to someone matching that individual's description?

I know it was posted by someone local to Kensal Green, who explained that it was people who look foreign who were being stopped. I find the rest of their timeline doesn't come across as excitable or ranting, so I'm taking it in good faith.

[markavfc40]

 

These bedroom tax cases taken to the high court really do highlight the issues with this despicable policy.

 

Three of the cases are detailed below. This Government and its supporters should hang their heads in shame.

 

Case one

Lawyers for one London family say they live in a damp, one-bedroom flat infested with mice. One son has autism, the other has Down's Syndrome.

The child with autism sleeps in the bedroom while his mother, father and brother sleep on the floor in the living room.

Due to the changes, they say they cannot afford to move to the larger property authorities say they need.

Case two

Charlotte Carmichael has spina bifida and sleeps in a hospital bed which, she argues, her husband and full-time carer cannot share.

He sleeps in their spare room as there is not enough space in hers for a second bed.

Case three

In 2011, six-year-old Isaac was assaulted by the then partner of his mother, leaving him traumatised. He and his mother were made homeless and assessed as needing three bedrooms because, solicitors say, of Isaac's behavioural and mental issues.

His mother lost £15.52 a week on 1 April when the council judged they were under-occupying.

[Risso]

Isn't the first case the main reason for the new rules in the first place?  So that families with children don't have to live in one bedroom flats?

[Risso]

 



I know it was posted by someone local to Kensal Green, who explained that it was people who look foreign who were being stopped. I find the rest of their timeline doesn't come across as excitable or ranting, so I'm taking it in good faith.

 

 

Well, that's all the proof I need then.  Case closed.

[peterms]

Isn't the first case the main reason for the new rules in the first place?  So that families with children don't have to live in one bedroom flats?

No. That would be a reason for building affordable homes, instead of which the exact opposite is happening - continuing to sell them off, let rents increase, and push housing associations into "mid rent" and building for sale rather than what they were set up to do.

[colhint]

No can't agree with that Peter, Surely a Government or Local Authority has to look at it's housing stock first, then make the best fit it can  before building more. Any other way seems illogical

[peterms]

No can't agree with that Peter, Surely a Government or Local Authority has to look at it's housing stock first, then make the best fit it can  before building more. Any other way seems illogical

The people now being affected by the bedroom tax did not choose their accommodation. They were allocated to it - in some cases with the ability to turn down an offer and be made another one, in other cases with only one offer.

The allocation decisions were made by professional staff working for the local authorities and housing associations who own it (nb none of it is the government's housing), based on achieving the most sensible fit between properties and households. Sometimes people were allocated what the government now decree to be the "right size" property. Sometimes they were given an extra bedroom, either because they had a requirement for more space because of disability, or needing carers staying overnight occasionally, or because it was likely they would need more space in future, or because there were more places of a larger size available than properties of the exactly correct size.

All of those things are perfectly sensible decisions made by people who know what they are doing and who are directly responsible for getting the best use out of the housing stock they have, over a period of many years. They have made allocation decisions which they think are the best available fit. And along comes the government, retrospectively applying a new and different set of criteria, imposing decisions which run counter to all this, and which impose costs on tenants for decisions made by someone else.

In some cases, people's housing needs will have changed since the original allocation. Housing needs do change over time, for all of us; in fact my own household's requirements for bedrooms have changed three times in the last year. It would be madness to expect everyone to move whenever there's a change in requirements. And so we don't, or didn't until this policy emerged.

It's not about helping overcrowded families. It's not about efficiency. It's not even about saving money - it won't, and the cost of arrears (already ballooning to the point where housing associations are concerned), court action, forced removals, voluntary removals (expensive business, moving house) will far exceed any nominal savings.

And no, it would make no sense at all to avoid building houses until you had fitted someone into every spare bedroom you could find across the whole housing stock. That would be about the most inefficient approach you could imagine. Think of its equivalent in other areas. No, sorry, you can't have a seat on the train to Leicester next Thursday, there's still some unsold places on today's train to Devizes. You want to do an evening class in car mechanics? Well you can't, and we're signing you up for cake decoration instead.

[colhint]

I would agree with most you say, apart from the last paragraph. Surely the people who have made the allocations in the first place realise what they need in housing stock, so a reevaluation would not be too difficult I would have thought. Then a certain amount of putting people in the right size accommodation, then build what your need. I'm not suggesting you get it better than 70% accurate. If you don't follow some process what would you consider a satisfactory outcome. I follow your analogy but I think maybe you want an evening class in mechanics, sorry its full, you can wait till the next course or there is one in the next village/town available. 

[tonyh29]

the people that made the allocation in the first place need dismissing from their jobs  .. what retard puts a family with 2 children in a 1 bedroom house

 

 

I should also add though that without a link the original post doesn't really have any credibility and is little more than one of those Facebook pages that go about to outrage people only to find they have zero truth once you scratch beneath the surface  ... so links please people so we can see the facts for ourselves

[bickster]

the people that made the allocation in the first place need dismissing from their jobs  .. what retard puts a family with 2 children in a 1 bedroom house

 

 

I should also add though that without a link the original post doesn't really have any credibility and is little more than one of those Facebook pages that go about to outrage people only to find they have zero truth once you scratch beneath the surface  ... so links please people so we can see the facts for ourselves

Maybe they were just a couple when they moved there

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

Racist policies don't stop being racist when you pay some black people to get involved in implementing them.

 

And you know for a fact that in the specific circumstance you pictured that the BA are being "racist" as opposed to acting on specific information in relation to someone matching that individual's description?

 

I know it was posted by someone local to Kensal Green, who explained that it was people who look foreign who were being stopped. I find the rest of their timeline doesn't come across as excitable or ranting, so I'm taking it in good faith.

 

I guess if you were looking for Tigers you'd stop all the animals that looked like elephants  so that you don't upset the tigers  ?

 

but a soon as the link took me to twitter then I'm afraid any credibility your case may have had was lost 

[bickster]

I guess if you were looking for Tigers you'd stop all the animals that looked like elephants  so that you don't upset the tigers  ?

I'd wager that most illegal immigrants in this country aren't actually black though

[tonyh29]

 

the people that made the allocation in the first place need dismissing from their jobs  .. what retard puts a family with 2 children in a 1 bedroom house

 

 

I should also add though that without a link the original post doesn't really have any credibility and is little more than one of those Facebook pages that go about to outrage people only to find they have zero truth once you scratch beneath the surface  ... so links please people so we can see the facts for ourselves

Maybe they were just a couple when they moved there

 

they'd still be entitled to move  ... I helped a friends daughter move not so long ago after she had a baby , she applied for a larger flat on account of having the child and was given it

[Risso]

 

 

 

I should also add though that without a link the original post doesn't really have any credibility and is little more than one of those Facebook pages that go about to outrage people only to find they have zero truth once you scratch beneath the surface  ... so links please people so we can see the facts for ourselves

 

Yep, the left wing equivalent of "the council made me take my union jack down".

[bickster]

they'd still be entitled to move  ... I helped a friends daughter move not so long ago after she had a baby , she applied for a larger flat on account of having the child and was given it

Some people aren't like that though, some people aren't aware of what they can and can't do, some people are also not very intelligent and might believe what their private landlord tells them. All sorts of reasons why

[tonyh29]

 

I guess if you were looking for Tigers you'd stop all the animals that looked like elephants  so that you don't upset the tigers  ?

I'd wager that most illegal immigrants in this country aren't actually black though

 

and how do you know that every person they stopped was black ? we've got 1 twitter photo hardly conclusive proof

 

 

Africa does still represent a huge amount of immigration into this country so it's only reasonable to expect one or two black people could be illegal immigrants .. as mentioned we don't' know on what basis he was stopped  ..was it for walking on the cracks in the pavement as Peter suggests or was it for acting suspiciously   ..... who knows

[Eames]

 

I guess if you were looking for Tigers you'd stop all the animals that looked like elephants  so that you don't upset the tigers  ?

I'd wager that most illegal immigrants in this country aren't actually black though

 

Thats the beauty - we don't know. Them being illegal and all.  

[peterms]

I guess if you were looking for Tigers you'd stop all the animals that looked like elephants  so that you don't upset the tigers  ?

 

but a soon as the link took me to twitter then I'm afraid any credibility your case may have had was lost 

Here's a piece in the local paper, with quotes from named witnesses.  http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/immigration_officers_accused_of_intimidating_train_passengers_at_kensal_green_station_1_2307162

 

Too few witnesses?  They could be making it up?  Perhaps they were hallucinating?  Maybe they're anarchists, who want to undermine trust in our government for their own twisted ends?

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I fear illegal immigrants are being dehumanised.

 

People need to understand that many of these people simply can't afford to go through the legal channels, for various reasons, and risk their lives travelling across the world in the hope of something better. We need to sympathise and treat them humanely, but at the same time there does need to be a firm stance because it just isn't sustainable.

 

It is the price paid for hundreds of years of exploiting other countries and, well, we need to face up to the fact that the UK's position in the world was not gained fairly.