Bolitics The New Condem Government

[peterms]

Vince Cable calls campaign targeting illegal immigrants 'stupid and offensive'

 

 

 

[tonyh29]

Fairly sure whenever you here the labour man on the street spouting about immigration he seems to refer to Eastern Europeans so Illegal immigration isn't about race these days

Though like everyone else I agree the buses are bloody stupid

[peterms]

Fairly sure whenever you here the labour man on the street spouting about immigration he seems to refer to Eastern Europeans

 

Leaving aside the "Labour" bit, which I assume is you trailing your coat for Drat, I agree.  This is how immigration is often referred to, in the recent past.

 

so Illegal immigration isn't about race these days

 

But this is a non sequitur.

 

Over the last couple of generations, people have been brought to understand that overt racism is unacceptable.  It hasn't gone away, just got quieter.  The things which were said openly 30 years ago are now said between friends or assumed friends, in texts and emails, anonymously, and more overtly by a hard core of proud-to-be-racist nazis.

 

Some people choose to express their racism in a more discreet way.  So it's not that they hate "Pakis", as they still call them in private, it's that they disapprove of radical Islam (and assume everyone with a skin colour between Mediterranean and sub-Saharan is a radical Islamist).  It's not that they dislike people of a different race entering the country, it's just that the place is "overcrowded"; see, they even object to white Europeans coming in, so they can't really be racist, can they?

 

The fears of the closet racists are being whipped up by this overtly racist campaign, and their resentment and hatred is taking one more small step towards being legitimised.  I'm glad that you recognise it for the stupidity that it is; I wish you'd also recognise it as dangerous, because it is that, too.

[Risso]

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

[tonyh29]

 

so Illegal immigration isn't about race these days

 

 

But this is a non sequitur.

 

Over the last couple of generations, people have been brought to understand that overt racism is unacceptable.  It hasn't gone away, just got quieter.  The things which were said openly 30 years ago are now said between friends or assumed friends, in texts and emails, anonymously, and more overtly by a hard core of proud-to-be-racist nazis.

 

Some people choose to express their racism in a more discreet way.  So it's not that they hate "Pakis", as they still call them in private, it's that they disapprove of radical Islam (and assume everyone with a skin colour between Mediterranean and sub-Saharan is a radical Islamist).  It's not that they dislike people of a different race entering the country, it's just that the place is "overcrowded"; see, they even object to white Europeans coming in, so they can't really be racist, can they?

 

The fears of the closet racists are being whipped up by this overtly racist campaign, and their resentment and hatred is taking one more small step towards being legitimised.  I'm glad that you recognise it for the stupidity that it is; I wish you'd also recognise it as dangerous, because it is that, too.

 

 

 

Have to say Pete ...I fear for your sanity

 

I've posted on other threads about the Like" brigade on facebook who seem to fit your bill as racists .... to me they are just ill informed about Islam , not racist

 

for all the FB outrage after Lee Rigby , apart from a few mindless idiots that attacked a mosque  .. nothing happened to the Muslim community

 

 

so either we as a nation are just bone idle and waiting for some Poles to come over and do our fire bombing of mosques for us  ... or we as a nation aren't actually as racist as you think

Edited July 28, 2013 by tonyh29

[snowychap]

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

No. They aren't all in the closet.

 

p.s. I think you (and Tony in his post above) have misunderstood what Peter was saying.

Edited July 28, 2013 by snowychap

[thetrees]

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

I was going to ask the same thing.

[tonyh29]

 

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

No. They aren't all in the closet.

 

p.s. I think you (and Tony in his post above) have misunderstood what Peter was saying.

 

add Trees to that list

[thetrees]

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

No. They aren't all in the closet.

 

p.s. I think you (and Tony in his post above) have misunderstood what Peter was saying.

add Trees to that list

Yes, but I am not as bright as you lot, so I am likely to misunderstand Peter ;-)

(Can't use smileys on ipad!)

[tonyh29]

 

 

Yes, but I am not as bright as you lot, so I am likely to misunderstand Peter ;-)

(Can't use smileys on ipad!)

 

that's the first time anyone's ever called snowy bright

 

 

 

PS

:

)

 

together on the same line (i.e no space)

[snowychap]

add Trees to that list

Pah, already edited the thing twice!

[thetrees]

Yes, but I am not as bright as you lot, so I am likely to misunderstand Peter ;-)

(Can't use smileys on ipad!)

that's the first time anyone's ever called snowy bright

 

 

 

PS

:

)

 

together on the same line (i.e no space)

[snowychap]

that's the first time anyone's ever called snowy bright

I think you missed the disguised insult - you + Risso = a lot.

[peterms]

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

 

I can see why you've chosen to work with numbers, not words.

[tonyh29]

 

So everybody who disapproves of radical islam and thinks the country is overcrowded is a closet racist?

 

I can see why you've chosen to work with numbers, not words.

 

[peterms]

In two parts, because " You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text".

 

Have to say Pete ...I fear for your sanity

I appreciate your concern.

 

I've posted on other threads about the Like" brigade on facebook who seem to fit your bill as racists .... to me they are just ill informed about Islam , not racist

You don't see racists using Islam as a convenient claok for their hatred? Look closer - it's not exactly well disguised.

 

for all the FB outrage after Lee Rigby , apart from a few mindless idiots that attacked a mosque  .. nothing happened to the Muslim community

I suggest you read a few things from members of the Muslim community about their daily experience before coming to such a firm view. But why would we expect anything to happen to the Muslim community? Were catholics attacked in the street in the wake of any one of the many paedophile scandals? Why not? And why would Muslims in general be blamed for the crimes of some of their number, which they neither knew of nor supported?

[peterms]

and the five minute rule won't let me post the second part for a while...ho hum...

so either we as our nation are just bone ideal

Sorry, don't follow this.

 

and waiting for some Poles to come over and do our fire bombing of mosques for us

Nor this

 

... or we as a nation aren't actually as racist as you think

I think the racism is sublimated, made disrespectable, pushed under. I think it surfaces at times. I think the current tory plan is to give more vent to this in the hope of heading off the Ukip vote. I think that's dangerous. I think they find it unpleasant, a bit mucky, to be doing this, but needs must, if they are to keep control of the government. I think they assume they can control it, like the German patricians did in the 20's. But they may waken more than they bargain for.

[tonyh29]

yeah that quote limit thingy is bloody annoying

 

my last sentence didn't' make sense as predictive text seemed to change half the words I typed  ..fixed it now !!

 

 

most of the people I hear down pubs , etc  making "bloody foreigners " and "Muslim" this and that tend to be your plumbers , builders , run of the mill C2 , DE people ...yer typical labour voter if you like  ...  I think your wrong therefore if you are trying to suggest it's just the "Tory"  vote behind this sublimated racism you are referring to

 

for sure the Tory vote has haemorrhaged to UKIP but that's on a European issue not a race issue  ... I know a few  VT'ers  likes to dress them up as a racist party .but UKIP haven't been outed as one yet ( arguably a few of their candidates have outed themselves on Facebook though )

[peterms]

most of the people I hear down pubs , etc  making "bloody foreigners " and "Muslim" this and that tend to be your plumbers , builders , run of the mill C2 , DE people ...yer typical labour voter if you like  ...  I think your wrong therefore if you are trying to suggest it's just the "Tory"  vote behind this sublimated racism you are referring to

Racism isn't aligned to social class, and neither is voting behaviour, as Disraeli knew. But the plumbers and builders you hear down the pub (assuming they're not Polish, who on the one hand seem to know quite a bit more about building than the sad remnants of our indigenous tradespeople, and on the other have some disturbingly racist elements in their own society) may more likely fit the standard tory definition of aspirational middle class, the "foremen" who will graduate to owning their own small business. These people would largely never have voted Labour. I don't see much, or any, read-across to labour votes from this. Do you? Why?

 

for sure the Tory vote has haemorrhaged to UKIP but that's on a European issue not a race issue  ... I know a few  VT'ers  likes to dress them up as a racist party .but UKIP haven't been outed as one yet ( arguably a few of their candidates have outed themselves on Facebook though )

I see it as a leak, not a haemorrhage (I see you've fixed the US spelcheckr, btw ). Temporary, not permanent. Not fatal.

Ukip is a party which was founded on Euro issues, but whose vote is about race and immigration, not the finer points of EU membership.

It follows that if you're a right wing party chasing the Ukip vote, you will go racist, not discuss the fine print of the Maastricht Treaty. And so it proves.

[tonyh29]

. I don't see much, or any, read-across to labour votes from this. Do you? Why?

Apart from the obvious , cause they defected to the BNP as they share similiar ideals rather than UKIP who share similiar Tory Ideals .. Though in the Brown era that does seem to have been a temporary flirtation based on the BNP vote subsequently getting wiped out ... Possibly repeated with UKIP ??

But Labour seem worried enough about UKIP .....

http://labourlist.org/2013/06/labour-must-not-let-ukip-win-working-class-votes/

Edit: not suggesting Labour is a racist party before someone suggests it ...,

Edited July 29, 2013 by tonyh29