dont_do_it_doug. Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I don't think UKIP have fascist ideologies though, they're far too soft. They're a part time party for party time racists. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) well haven't you prejudged the views of many ukip supporters?how? They have publicly available policies and statements. They have alliances that are in the public domain etc etc. again i see your comments as nothing more than a deflection of the topics being discussed and a resort to personal abuse, is that prejudiced? Why not return to discussing ukip, ids, condems etc Edited April 3, 2013 by drat01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 well you said i find the thinking of ukip (and i suspect many of its supporters) very much in the same 'ball park' as a lot of the definitions re fascism which as i said have been all over the press re dicanio. I read that as you suspect many supporters of ukip think very much in the ball park as a lot of the definitions of facism. I think that's prejudiced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I don't think UKIP have fascist ideologies though, they're far too soft. They're a part time party for party time racists. I think you are falling into the trap that others fall into Wanting out of Europe is currently supported by a majority of the UK population .... UKIP are the only party offering that , therefore a lot of people will put their vote in that box ...doesn't make these people racists or even closet racists in any way shape or form , it's like when the working class dumped labour and voted BNP , they weren't racists but as labour had turned into a poor imitation of the Tory party , those working class people needed somewhere to go and BNP was the only party ticking some of the boxes they needed .. this working class move has been repeated in lots of Europe so respectfully I can't agree with your statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) I don't think UKIP have fascist ideologies though, they're far too soft. They're a part time party for party time racists. I think you are falling into the trap that others fall into Wanting out of Europe is currently supported by a majority of the UK population .... UKIP are the only party offering that , therefore a lot of people will put their vote in that box ...doesn't make these people racists or even closet racists in any way shape or form , it's like when the working class dumped labour and voted BNP , they weren't racists but as labour had turned into a poor imitation of the Tory party , those working class people needed somewhere to go and BNP was the only party ticking some of the boxes they needed .. this working class move has been repeated in lots of Europe so respectfully I can't agree with your statement Then those people, who are happy to vote for an ( c)overtly racist party on the basis of one policy are ignorant. I've been searching for a nice way of saying that and couldn't find it. "Misguided" doesn't cover it. Edited April 3, 2013 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I don't think UKIP have fascist ideologies though, they're far too soft. They're a part time party for party time racists. I think you are falling into the trap that others fall into Wanting out of Europe is currently supported by a majority of the UK population .... UKIP are the only party offering that , therefore a lot of people will put their vote in that box ...doesn't make these people racists or even closet racists in any way shape or form , it's like when the working class dumped labour and voted BNP , they weren't racists but as labour had turned into a poor imitation of the Tory party , those working class people needed somewhere to go and BNP was the only party ticking some of the boxes they needed .. this working class move has been repeated in lots of Europe so respectfully I can't agree with your statement Then those people, who are happy to vote for an ( c)overtly racist party on the basis of one policy are ignorant. I've been searching for a nice way of saying that and couldn't find it. "Misguided" doesn't cover it. you work for Rotherham council and I claim my £5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Ha! Fiver in the post. A protest vote ceases to be a protest vote when the person you're voting for gains real power. Then it becomes a problem that we all have to bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 "Well UKIP are anti-EU and so am I, I'll forgive their less-tasteful policies because they don't effect little old middle-England me." That is a dangerous mentality. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 well you said i find the thinking of ukip (and i suspect many of its supporters) very much in the same 'ball park' as a lot of the definitions re fascism which as i said have been all over the press re dicanio. I read that as you suspect many supporters of ukip think very much in the ball park as a lot of the definitions of facism. I think that's prejudiced. not sure why you coloured it all, but hey ho.you are wrong with your definition of prejudiced imo and again you are deflecting from the subject imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Awol . As a ukip supporter how do you feel about the formal links the party has with bodies such as "europe of freedom and democracy" group.? Especially as some fellow members are confirmed fascists such as italialian liga nord etc? My apologies for not replying promptly enough for you Drat, the carrier pidgeon bearing your post has only just arrived - one of the disadvantages of living abroad I'm afraid. Honestly I don't care in the least what parties UKIP make common cause with in the EU Parliament, when the majority of parties represented are so pro the EU then UKIP may well have to sit down with people you don't agree with to advance your own agenda. Britain made common cause with Stalin's Russia to defeat Nazi totalitarianism, and the EU is imho a nascent fascist organisation, so needs must. Italianian liga nord are never going to be up for election in the UK so who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 well haven't you prejudged the views of many ukip supporters? I will admit that I have, personally. Following the debate so far I've yet to be proven incorrect in my assumption. The racial motivation is stark. Well if you've read racism into my posts (which you appear to be suggesting above) then you are seeing what you want to see, not what is actually written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 well haven't you prejudged the views of many ukip supporters? I will admit that I have, personally. Following the debate so far I've yet to be proven incorrect in my assumption. The racial motivation is stark. Well if you've read racism into my posts (which you appear to be suggesting above) then you are seeing what you want to see, not what is actually written. Even if that were true, I've yet to form a solid opinion on your own motivations for whatever that's worth because I'd like to think I 'know' you better, you don't have to look far or hard to see the motivation in others. Certainly that of UKIP themselves, which was my main point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Awol . As a ukip supporter how do you feel about the formal links the party has with bodies such as "europe of freedom and democracy" group.? Especially as some fellow members are confirmed fascists such as italialian liga nord etc? My apologies for not replying promptly enough for you Drat, the carrier pidgeon bearing your post has only just arrived - one of the disadvantages of living abroad I'm afraid. Honestly I don't care in the least what parties UKIP make common cause with in the EU Parliament, when the majority of parties represented are so pro the EU then UKIP may well have to sit down with people you don't agree with to advance your own agenda. Britain made common cause with Stalin's Russia to defeat Nazi totalitarianism, and the EU is imho a nascent fascist organisation, so needs must. Italianian liga nord are never going to be up for election in the UK so who cares? I am surprised by your response (and I have no idea what the little comment was re timing of reply was about). The Italian party was one of those that were mentioned in the general comments re fascism and considering your stance previously that UKIP's thinking was in no way akin to that of anything to do with fascism etc, the fact that UKIP are closely aligned to parties who are more open with their views would certainly be worthy of a question, no? The fact they have no vote in the UK has no relevance whatsoever, UKIP have willingly become closer to various political parties around Europe who's views are for a lot somewhat suspect. But you have no issues with that, so fair enough, I look forward to similar stance to any similar discussions that will no doubt occur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Seems Mr £53 a week may have been telling a few untruths and he actually has £156 a week according to reports ... Hardly a fortune but one wonders why he decided to put out his original claim !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Seems Mr £53 a week may have been telling a few untruths and he actually has £156 a week according to reports ... Hardly a fortune but one wonders why he decided to put out his original claim !! £156 disposable cash, as in after rent, council tax, bills etc? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I don't think UKIP have fascist ideologies though, they're far too soft. They're a part time party for party time racists. I think you are falling into the trap that others fall into Wanting out of Europe is currently supported by a majority of the UK population .... Is that just subliminal messaging to the good volk of VT, or have you found a recent poll that says 50.1% + want out? Highest number I can find is two polls back in january that had 40% wanting out. Even the establishment biased BBC says it isn't 50%. I've found lots of polls where more than 50% want a referendum, but that doesn't auto translate into wanting out. But anyway, that's a side issue. Are UKIP racist? I don't think they are overtly deliberately conciously racist, they just like people to be and act and think like 'us'. 'Us' being that collective group of middle aged whities that read the Mail or the Sun and presume their personal prejudices are actually just plain good and right. They know they are right, because their media and their social circle agrees with them. They do not posess that self questioning constant reassessment and review thing that afflicts us deep thinking lefties. These people liked the 1950's and 60's. We had pop music we could be slightly alarmed by, because hair had crept over the collar. We had people called 'the major' that wore cravats but weren't benders. Benders hadn't been invented. Europe was still bloody grateful. Leicester, Luton and Slough were full of stout working class chaps. Cutting edge technology was easier to handle, it was called Angel Delight. The Church of England was all about sensible hair, hetrosexual marriage and a general sense of well being. They basically jolly well want to turn back the clock. If it could just be 1961 again we'd all be happy. They like words like: thruppence commando gallon two hundred weight of potatoes half inch pipe fuzzywuzzy coronation chicken Wolseley Austin Cambridge Concord Tobacco Half ounce of shag Spiv Trilby Brylcream Rotter 2 days leave booked, I've had a drink 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 pints I hope not litres, or maybe a sixth of a gill if its spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 pints I hope not litres, or maybe a sixth of a gill if its spirit oooh six of a gill is an excellent call, should have remembered that from my barman days deliberately didn't use pint as it has too many positive connotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Seems Mr £53 a week may have been telling a few untruths and he actually has £156 a week according to reports ... Hardly a fortune but one wonders why he decided to put out his original claim !! £156 disposable cash, as in after rent, council tax, bills etc? I didnt see the original story tbh so dont know more about how his £53 was made up but its being reported in the torygraph as Three times what he claimed on the interview so presumably they've applied the same equation to both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Seems Mr £53 a week may have been telling a few untruths and he actually has £156 a week according to reports ... Hardly a fortune but one wonders why he decided to put out his original claim !! £156 disposable cash, as in after rent, council tax, bills etc? I didnt see the original story tbh so dont know more about how his £53 was made up but its being reported in the torygraph as Three times what he claimed on the interview so presumably they've applied the same equation to both The £53 will be his allowance, for food, travel etc. The other money is no doubt to cover his rent and bills. It's fairly obvious nobody can pay all their bills AND eat on £53 a week. I can't believe anyone thought that in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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