Bolitics The New Condem Government

[peterms]

The NHS is safe in our hands. A phrase famously used by Thatcher in 1982.

The full text of an internal paper that was at the heart of one of the most damaging leaks in Margaret Thatcher’s first term is laid bare in files from 1982 – the cabinet office’s Central Policy Review Staff’s review of “Longer-Term Options”.

Most controversially, these options included dismantling of the National Health Service, which would be replaced by a system of compulsory private insurance, with state funded healthcare only for the poorest or most frail.

The extension of private school education was also proposed, to be encouraged with vouchers and tax breaks, and funded by an introduction of charges for state schools.

The paper was widely leaked at the time and caused outcry, prompting Margaret Thatcher to pledge “The National Health Service is safe in our hands”.

Again by Cameron in 2006.

David Cameron said the NHS is safe in his hands as he brought the annual Conservative conference to an end.

Mr Cameron accused Labour of mismanaging the health service and said he would be taking to the streets with a campaign to stop the cuts.

The Tory leader also hit out at those accusing him of peddling spin rather than substance.

And the reality...

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[villaajax]

The good news will keep on coming!

[coda]

 

Huge list of financial and vested interests

[drat01]

For those of us who had the misfortune of suffering Thatcher we did warn you what the Tory party was like.

 

a party of lies, intolerance, deceit, looking after the rich at the expense of the poor.

 

A more obnoxious party you would struggle to find to fair and right thinking people

[Demitri_C]

the nhs is a mess because of the managers far too many idiots that mids use the money, the only cuts that should be made is for these managers i just heard they are cutting from 12 staff nurses to 3 in my department outpatients, here how the hell is this going to survive? the NHS is falling apart and i think it will all be private in next 10 years

[tonyh29]

A more obnoxious party you would struggle to find to fair and right thinking people

 

Prescott , Blair and Brown say Hi

 

 

this "fair " and "right" bollocks is getting boring now tbh  ... by all means if you want to pretend your some form of superior being because you vote Labour , carry on  , but it adds zero to any conversation

[peterms]

the nhs is a mess because of the managers far too many idiots that mids use the money, the only cuts that should be made is for these managers i just heard they are cutting from 12 staff nurses to 3 in my department outpatients, here how the hell is this going to survive? the NHS is falling apart and i think it will all be private in next 10 years

That is of course the intention. Privatise bits gradually, pile on the pressure in other areas, use any service failing not as a way to identify and address problems but as ideological cover for further privatisation...

[colhint]

but isn't the 2 biggest examples of privatising the nhs, letting dentists go private and introducing pfi

[drat01]

 

A more obnoxious party you would struggle to find to fair and right thinking people

 

Prescott , Blair and Brown say Hi

 

 

this "fair " and "right" bollocks is getting boring now tbh  ... by all means if you want to pretend your some form of superior being because you vote Labour , carry on  , but it adds zero to any conversation

 

 

So the Ahh but Labour thing is still alive, I was wondering about it's health

 

I appreciate Tony as a long term and ardent Tory supporter the idea that people questioning some of the long held views (ironically ones they try and fail to keep under wraps) of the Tory party must be difficult especially when they are scrutinised and quite a common consensus is that the "nasty" party is still alive and well. There have been numerous comments in the media of late about the "toxic" effect of the views of many of the membership of the Tory party and what that will have in terms of peoples view points of them. The policies that the Tory party have long held are not about fairness and certainly not about tolerance despite you thinking that this is "bollocks". Right wing held views by their very nature are not about either.

 

So it may not sit comfortably with you but the reality is that the Tory party is, have always been and always will be one of of intolerance, deceit, looking after the richer in society, and them's the facts

[coda]

It's the deceit involved that bothers me. As Portillo says here, "They [the Tories] did not believe they could win an election if they told you what they were going to do [to the NHS]".

[peterms]

but isn't the 2 biggest examples of privatising the nhs, letting dentists go private and introducing pfi

 

Two very unhelpful developments.  Changes in the way dentistry is provided have led to many people not getting access to dental care: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7041291.stm

 

And PFI is a total ripoff.  The contracts should be terminated.

[colhint]

that is some wonderful terminology there Peter. So when Labour did that, was it idealogical cuts to privatise the NHS 

[tonyh29]

 

 

A more obnoxious party you would struggle to find to fair and right thinking people

 

Prescott , Blair and Brown say Hi

 

 

this "fair " and "right" bollocks is getting boring now tbh  ... by all means if you want to pretend your some form of superior being because you vote Labour , carry on  , but it adds zero to any conversation

 

 

I appreciate Tony as a long term and ardent Tory supporter

 

 I'd suggest you stop trying to second guess

 

I've only voted twice in my life , once when i turned 18 as it was the first time i was able to vote  ( I actually voted Lib Dem) and I voted UKIP at the last election as when I walked in the voting both it turned out and old school mate of mine was the candidate in my area so I gave him my vote instead

 

so that's 50% Lib Dem and 50% UKIP for my voting record  and I've never actually voted Tory  :-)

 

I do veer towards the Tory party though when it comes to policy  I could be tempted by the Libs if they ever sorted their act out on some of the really woolly policies though

 

I'm a big admirer of Thatcher and hold her to be the best PM we've had in recent times ... I also dislike trade Unions hypocrites  and bigots so that precludes me from voting labour ...

 

but I'd hardly fit your profiling as a long term ardent supporter

Edited February 8, 2013 by tonyh29

[snowychap]

the nhs is a mess because of the managers far too many idiots that mids use the money, the only cuts that should be made is for these managers...

What the NHS needs (like many other organizations in both the private and public sector) is better management; proper co-ordination; people taking responsibility for their own decision making and people taking an interest in things beyond their own purview so that they understand their place in a process.

Not an obsession with 'cutting back office and not affecting the front line' (the soundbite often shoved out by politicians); or thinking that ridding an institution of 50% of its managers or 'red tape' will suddenly free up people to do things well and efficiently; or a belief that marketization of service provision is going to somehow raise standards for all in all places.

Edited February 8, 2013 by snowychap

[snowychap]

but I'd hardly fit your profiling as a long term ardent supporter

If you took out the vote for the Lib Dems and the disliking bigots then you'd pass for a Tory backbencher.

[Demitri_C]

""What the NHS needs (like many other organizations in both the private and public sector) is better management; proper co-ordination; people taking responsibility for their own decision making and people taking an interest in things beyond their own purview so that they understand their place in a process. Not an obsession with 'cutting back office and not affecting the front line' (the soundbite often shoved out by politicians); or thinking that ridding an institution of 50% of its managers or 'red tape' will suddenly free up people to do things well and efficiently; or a belief that marketization of service provision is going to somehow raise standards for all in all places. "" Agree with this Snowy but fundamentally they need to stop hiring sub managers to do all their work while all they do is email all day, go on internet and then go to pointless meetings where nothing ever happens management mis-use is the main reason the NHS is in turmoil at the moment and its only going to get worse

[snowychap]

I don't think I've ever worked somewhere (or heard people talk about a work place) where they haven't called the meetings they don't attend 'pointless'.

That's not to say that there are not a lot of pointless meetings (nor a lot of useless managers and layers of management) but your comments seem to be laying the blame for (NHS) failings at a caricature.

Edited February 8, 2013 by snowychap

[peterms]

Vicky Pryce tells the court she wanted to turn the clock back.

 

So that's another motoring offence, then.

[Kingfisher]

I have worked in the NHS, as an administrative officer and I have to say it was the worst working experience I have ever had. There were about four managers, three of them just dealing directly with only our department and a higher up manager with broader responsibilities. There should have been one manager and a deputy manager., that's all that was needed and their £45k (and higher) salaries could be much better spent on several clerk level employees, which is what was really needed. Mistakes were being made as people were over worked, everybody was unhappy and I had enough, I was so depressed and angry by the whole situation that I had to leave. I was lucky I could. I love the NHS and I loved my job, but it's run by clowns.    

[blandy]

tonyh29, on 07 Feb 2013 - 22:37, said:

Yeah it's a wierd one when you try and bracket groups , I mean I'm sure that not every labour supporter has BNP tendencies they just tend to lean that way out of ideological reasons as has been proven by voting patterns during the BNP's brief flirt at getting elected

That's reverse logic, there, Tony.

If we take it as the case that say 65% or so of BNP voting people have previously supported labour, then that makes, what, I dunno half a million, or a quarter million (I've no idea, but it's not going to be more than that), then you could say that the half million folk who had allegiance in some way to Labour have sympathy with the racist right wing nut job BNP, but then if you look at Labour, you could only say that the same half mill, out of what, perhaps 10 million who did vote labour - that's 5% being generous. So no, Labour voters tend not to lean that way. ANd there will be the same level or similar who went more left wing - to the Lib Dems, Greens, etc.

But it's an aside, and I think you know it's actually not a valid point, the claim you made.