tonyh29 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Suicide rates soaring probably going OT and maybe needs it's own thread as I don't really think suicide is a Government related issue as such ( although suicide rates have increased since the economic downturn). Around 13,000 people committed suicide in England between 2008 and 2010 – 1,000 more than expected As a statistic it is quite worrying , in that figure it is saying the suicide figure is 1,000 more than expected .. suggesting that 12,000 people in 2 years that felt ending their life was the best cause of action to them To my knowledge there haven't been any figures released for the period 2010 - 2012 , so it's hard to say how much worse it currently is (or indeed lower ? ) I doubt it is enough but I know when i go walking along the 7 sisters there is now a suicide watch place at beachy head in a bid to try and talk to anyone that may be in the process of jumping ... and although not in the Uk I heard on the news last night that Italian banks have said they will not repossess any homes following the suicide of one lady who as about to lose her house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 he always seems to get off the hook I think you are confusing him with Abu Hamza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretman Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Why oh why has Qatada been released? Only in this country would a man billed 'Osama Bin-Laden's right hand man in Europe' be released and allowed to walk the streets, albeit with some stringent conditions. Does anyone think France, for example, would have released him? He would have been deported immediately. Maybe I'm being a bit Daily Mail here but things like this really piss me off, the Rest of the World must be thinking WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 probably going OT and maybe needs it's own thread as I don't really think suicide is a Government related issue I think it is unquestionably a Goverment issue. It is exactly the kind of thing a working Government should tackle. When thousands of your citizens decide to end their lives, you have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Why oh why has Qatada been released? Only in this country would a man billed 'Osama Bin-Laden's right hand man in Europe' be released and allowed to walk the streets, albeit with some stringent conditions. Does anyone think France, for example, would have released him? He would have been deported immediately. Maybe I'm being a bit Daily Mail here but things like this really piss me off, the Rest of the World must be thinking WTF. Yes you are being a bit Daily Mail TBH Was the same outrage shown when the guy found to be hacking was not extradited? Gary McKinnon. I appreciate it's not exactly the same but potentially it has a lot of similarities. Theresa May has screwed up again not understanding judicial processes by the looks of it, not her first time and probably not her last. The whole thing about extradition is that it has various very complex rules and regulations that have to be considered and these can only be done case on case. Abu Qatada has apparently been freed on bail after 10 years in prison so I am not sure the benefits thing applies as someone mentioned previously. It would seem that from the evidence in the public domain that Abu Qatada should have been deported much in the same way that others have been previously. Let's hope that with the few options she has left now, May actually pays more attention to following correct procedures and less to rent-a-quote in the media I think it is unquestionably a Goverment issue. It is exactly the kind of thing a working Government should tackle. When thousands of your citizens decide to end their lives, you have a problem. LibDemings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Why oh why has Qatada been released? Only in this country would a man billed 'Osama Bin-Laden's right hand man in Europe' be released and allowed to walk the streets, albeit with some stringent conditions. Does anyone think France, for example, would have released him? He would have been deported immediately. Maybe I'm being a bit Daily Mail here but things like this really piss me off, the Rest of the World must be thinking WTF. It's very simple. If he has done something wrong, then he should be charged. If not, then he is free to go. It's a very old principle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think it is unquestionably a Goverment issue. It is exactly the kind of thing a working Government should tackle. When thousands of your citizens decide to end their lives, you have a problem. I did sorta raise that question in my post , I guess my point would be does it specifically belong in this thread which is about the about the current government , when it's a wider issue to be discussed ( away from politics) and the stats presented do actually pre date the current government ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 probably going OT and maybe needs it's own thread as I don't really think suicide is a Government related issue as such ( although suicide rates have increased since the economic downturn). Around 13,000 people committed suicide in England between 2008 and 2010 – 1,000 more than expected As a statistic it is quite worrying , in that figure it is saying the suicide figure is 1,000 more than expected .. suggesting that 12,000 people in 2 years that felt ending their life was the best cause of action to them To my knowledge there haven't been any figures released for the period 2010 - 2012 , so it's hard to say how much worse it currently is (or indeed lower ? ) I doubt it is enough but I know when i go walking along the 7 sisters there is now a suicide watch place at beachy head in a bid to try and talk to anyone that may be in the process of jumping ... and although not in the Uk I heard on the news last night that Italian banks have said they will not repossess any homes following the suicide of one lady who as about to lose her house I think its not just a government issue but also becoming a worldwide issue It was only last week i seen an article about a woman in Spain who jumped to her death from the 4th floor of her apartment just as the bailiffs were moving in to repo her home due to relentless pressure from the struggling Spanish banks I'm sure the people at the samaritans are working overtime at the minute As for Qatada issue i think were very much a laughing stock in the rest of the world's eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It's very simple. If he has done something wrong, then he should be charged. If not, then he is free to go. It's a very old principle. that he has pretty much been in prison since 2002 suggests he may have done something wrong ? but my understanding from the brief snippet I heard was he had done wrong but to deport him would mean death or torture ? and thus our justice system refused to hand him over ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 that he has pretty much been in prison since 2002 suggests he may have done something wrong ? but my understanding from the brief snippet I heard was he had done wrong but to deport him would mean death or torture ? and thus our justice system refused to hand him over ? Abu Qatada legal chronology October 2002: Detained without chargeMarch 2005: Law Lords ban detention without charge, ordering release. Issued with control order - form of house arrest restricting movementsAugust 2005: Detained again, pending deportationFebruary 2007: Loses appeal at SiacApril 2008: Court of Appeal says deportation to regime that tortures would breach human rightsJune 2008: Bailed - but then detained five months later on new evidence of riskFebruary 2009: Law Lords back deportation, saying the Court of Appeal got it wrongJanuary 2012: European Court overturns that decision, saying Jordan will not provide a fair trialNovember 2012: Wins appeal at Siac and is released on bail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 that he has pretty much been in prison since 2002 suggests he may have done something wrong ? Seriously, that is the logic of a police state. Where are the charges? Where is the evidence? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Qatada is a convicted terrorist in his adopted land of Jordan (he is a Palestinian by birth) and entered the UK on a false passport. That alone should guarantee him a ticket home. He is obviously considered an ongoing (and very expensive)threat to the UK people and the fact he is still here defies belief and common sense. I find it incredible some people are actually defending a well known preacher of hate and supporter of Al Qaeda. May has no choice but to continue the appeals process now (she can petition to appeal again) but she hasn't made any mistakes in the matter other than premature triumphalism that the UK would finally be rid of this filthy and dangerous leech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Where are the charges? Where is the evidence? In Jordan, where he should be. They've guaranteed not to use evidence gained under torture in his retrial (which they promised us as a condition of his planned deportation)and even the judges in this appeal acknowledged that. It's an utter farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Qatada is a convicted terrorist in his adopted land of Jordan (he is a Palestinian by birth) and entered the UK on a false passport. That alone should guarantee him a ticket home. He is obviously considered an ongoing (and very expensive)threat to the UK people and the fact he is still here defies belief and common sense. I find it incredible some people are actually defending a well known preacher of hate and supporter of Al Qaeda. May has no choice but to continue the appeals process now (she can petition to appeal again) but she hasn't made any mistakes in the matter other than premature triumphalism that the UK would finally be rid of this filthy and dangerous leech. Seems like the real danger to the country are those who try to convince themselves he presents no threat at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Seriously, that is the logic of a police state. Where are the charges? Where is the evidence? and yet you were happy to condemn a certain bicycle riding man without any evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Qatada is a convicted terrorist in his adopted land of Jordan (he is a Palestinian by birth) and entered the UK on a false passport. That alone should guarantee him a ticket home. He is obviously considered an ongoing (and very expensive)threat to the UK people and the fact he is still here defies belief and common sense. I find it incredible some people are actually defending a well known preacher of hate and supporter of Al Qaeda. May has no choice but to continue the appeals process now (she can petition to appeal again) but she hasn't made any mistakes in the matter other than premature triumphalism that the UK would finally be rid of this filthy and dangerous leech. i wonder if your defense of May would have been so vocal if she had been Labour, I think the answer would have been no. She has made fundamental mistakes time and time again and this is just another example. What about the mix up with dates previously? Wht about the admission that Tory James Brokenshire had investigated the possibility of a pardon for him? How does that fit in with your views? As said there are rightly some very strict rules in place re deportation and they have to be adhered to. From the info in the public domain it looks as though he should have been deported by now, but consistent failures and challenges by both Labour and Tory Gvmt's have resulted in the situation where we are now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 He obtained asylum back in 1993 using a fake passport Isn't that fraud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 In Jordan, where he should be. They've guaranteed not to use evidence gained under torture in his retrial (which they promised us as a condition of his planned deportation)and even the judges in this appeal acknowledged that. It's an utter farce. Evidence against Abu Qatada 'extremely thin', claims appeal judge "For all its promise of change, Jordan's laudable reform efforts have fallen short of the mark and remained ineffective in combating torture"...In an October 2008 report, "Torture and Impunity in Jordan's Prisons," Human Rights Watch found torture to be widespread and routine with near-total impunity for the perpetrators. Since then, Jordan has undertaken some reform efforts, but has eschewed institutional change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 and yet you were happy to condemn a certain bicycle riding man without any evidence Nonsense. The evidence is that his eyes are too close together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 He obtained asylum back in 1993 using a fake passport Isn't that fraud? I think there are other crime's that are being considered rather than fraud. Interesting that EDL leader was also charged with passport crimes and there are lots of people charged with passport offences throughout the years all over the world. Not all of them though are deported or likewise sent back to the UK when they are UK nationals. He will be deported soon though as there can be no more cock ups from the powers that be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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