peterms Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 EDIT: And if you hadn't noticed Ireland are having to cut savagely in line with the instructions from the EU Commissars who now run their country. Exactly where we'd be now had Labour been re-elected. Didn't realise Labour would have made us join the Euro by now. Was that in their manifesto? No, but had Labour got back in then Darling (who in fairness to him seemed to understand the need for major cuts) wouldn't have survived in post as Chancellor - as his statements since confirm. That would have put Ed Balls and his plan to massively increase debt into No. 11. Our credit rating would have dropped off a cliff with the attendant rise in borrowing costs, the same downward spiral to bailouts we've seen in the PIGS. Granted our overlords would have been the IMF only (instead of the IMF/EU/ECB troika currently demolishing democracy across Europe) but the result is still the same. No, credit ratings wouldn't have dropped. Money is seeking a safe home right now, running from the approaching storm. Japan has the biggest debt in the world and is lending at 1%. Both Germany and the US are taking money from the markets at a loss to the markets - ie financiers are paying these countries to look after their cash for six months and then repay them less than what they lent! All the cash pushed by the ECB to refloat banks - well, most of it, some €482bn of the, was it €500bn (?) of new money printed and pushed into the system is still sitting there rather than being passed into the real economy. So even that half-hearted measure has had no effect. Cuts are not required. Our credit ratings would be unaffected by our spending plans. Credit ratings are in any event wholly spurious and a waste of time. We desperately need to invest new money (created by the government, not by private banks) in the real economy (not pushing fake money to banks to shore up their balance sheets). It really doesn't matter at all what "the markets", those drugged-up bunch of charlatan spivs slumped in the urinals of city clubs, think about it. We have, as you Jon will doubtless both recognise and applaud, a sovereign nation and a sovereign currency. Let's use these strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted January 14, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 14, 2012 No, credit ratings wouldn't have dropped. Money is seeking a safe home right now, running from the approaching storm. You sure about that? I think the credit agencies disagree with you. Also I see Ed Balls has woken up and smelt the coffee regarding cuts, only a year late to waking up to reality. So I assume you all disagree with your own party now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ed Balls is a complete tool. His entire political presence seems to be about point scoring and rarely outlines any kind of policy worth using your eardrums to take in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Heard some union leader on 5 live last night who wasn't very happy with Balls agreeing with public sector pay freezes Seems that is Balls chance of replacing Ed M scuppered then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Balls is in an interesting position now. On one hand he says the coalition cuts are too far and too fast, on the other he now says that he wouldn't make any changes if Labour were in government. How does that work then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Does it begin with an "H" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I think the credit agencies disagree with you. I think the credit agencies disagree between themselves and with themselves. Their 'narrative' doesn't appear to be a terribly coherent one at the moment. Also I see Ed Balls has woken up and smelt the coffee regarding cuts... I don't think he has. I think it's a mixture of trying to find some kind of position that he (or whichever particular brains trust is guiding the Labour party this week) believes will gain some political advantage over Osborne (by trying to put discussion of the cuts to one side - rather similar, though on the other side of the coin, to the Tory acceptance of the Labour spending commitments when they were in opposition) and a demonstration that, in politics, reasoning and attempting to base a particular policy position upon that reasoning will tend to lose out to received wisdom, the desire for power and the influence of vested interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 what a clearing in the woods ed balls is, perfect politician on channel 4 news, "if you were chancellor would you borrow too" - "george osborne is borrowing this amount..." "if you were chancellor would you make cuts?" - "george osborne is making this many cuts..." all the while with a horrible grin and tone to his voice, just **** off, knows everything that is wrong but absolutely nothing about how to put it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 :-) - Oh I am loving this Hypocrisy now, from the Tory VT masses. It's priceless. So Ed Balls is a "idiot" (one really nice person thought he looked like he had Downs - what a really nice person you must be. I bet that comment made you feel all warm and happy) for, as Snowy has pointed out, quoting what the strategy is now from Labour. So no one is allowed to change their views in any way (and for the record I think that Labour as a party has always said that cuts would have happened if they had been re-elected, not just so vindictive against certain areas and with such ferocity while protecting the banking elements like we see from the ConDems). I seem to remember that Gideon (oops sorry I know that upsets) and Cameron were for a long time calling for larger spending from Gvmt rather than what Labour were doing at the time. They changed their tune, but obviously that is just only "allowed" under the rules of political discussion on VT when talking about certain political parties and any indignation is is not hypocrisy it's just fact :-) Rightly the Unions are maintain their stance on questioning the whole idea of cuts in certain areas and whoever was in power should be questioned on how these policies would affect the Union membership and the UK populous in general. Just because a leading Labour political figure says that certain cuts must happen, does not mean that the Unions or anyone should just accept them without stating why they feel they are wrong and how they would like to see them changed. It seems that some just always fail to see this. The Tory led Gvmt (with lapdog Clegg keeping them in power) continue to bring this country to its knees. At the weekend we saw in the media how many think that the country is now in recession - link, but deflection from discussing this will take the form of reports on Tony Blair and attacks on Ed Balls., rather than actually asking what the hell is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just because a leading Labour political figure says that certain cuts must happen, does not mean that the Unions or anyone should just accept them without stating why they feel they are wrong and how they would like to see them changed surely when you buy an election for someone you expect them to do your bidding ? not just so vindictive against certain areas hasn't balls just said he wouldn't reverse them ? therefore they would be party to these vindictive cuts ? but deflection from discussing this will take the form of reports on Tony Blair and attacks on Ed Balls. not to mention "women over 40 you'd get it on with" the "film thread" "What song are you listening to " etc ... shameful attempts at defection by the VT masses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 :-) @ Tony - you have not even read what I wrote there - Who exactly did this "buy an election" ? - Read what is being said now - I agree, mass deflection rather than mass debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ahhh good to see that "rent-a quote" Michael Gove come out with some more "lacking a real understanding of the man in the street" bollox. It seems that Give (who I thought had a responsibility for Education?) is now trumpeting that we should as a country invest millions in buying the queen a new yacht! link I suppose when you are part of a Tory Gvmt that has no real sense of what is happening to the UK population then schemes like a new Royal Yacht would seem like a good idea. More seriously though it does show how Gove and the rest of the Gvmt have no idea of the hardships that their policies are having on most people outside of their key support areas. To even suggest this as an idea is actually quite appalling and really Gove should look at himself and start to get a grip on what is happening rather than schemes like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 rather than mass debate i see what you did there at your age do you look at the 40 year old women inn that thread and say 25 years ago maybe :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Chancellor George Osborne has made a landmark deal to develop London into a major offshore trading centre for the Chinese currency. At the beginning of a three-day visit to Asia, Mr Osborne said he would be holding talks on establishing the City of London as a leading international hub for the exchange of the yuan, also known as the reminibi. UK companies will be opened up to Asian investors while the Hong Kong authorities have agreed to keep their trading floors open longer each day to make it easier for financiers in London to make trades in the Chinese currency. The move is expected to bring a multimillion pound boost to the UK capital at a time when its economic growth is being increasingly threatened by the crisis in the eurozone. thoughts on this one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 thoughts on this one ? Is our economy not already overly reliant on the finance sector? Though anything that has a positive effect on GDP figures may be seen as a good thing in the short term (and will obviously be of interest to politicians - especially when the growth fairy failed to turn up and the export miracle hasn't occurred), it seems as though we ought to tread with caution about putting more of our eggs in that basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted January 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2012 Is our economy not already overly reliant on the finance sector? Though anything that has a positive effect on GDP figures may be seen as a good thing in the short term (and will obviously be of interest to politicians - especially when the growth fairy failed to turn up and the export miracle hasn't occurred), it seems as though we ought to tread with caution about putting more of our eggs in that basket. I guess we can find some things to manufacture but unfortunately people wont work at the rates of some far eastern countries and will end up going on strike after 5 minutes anyway. Also when we make cheaper stuff like Rovers it ends up being god awful and nobody wants to buy it. Of course we can make the high quality stuff but the only people who can afford it are the same people who most on here want to burn on a cross, so maybe that one is out too. Or we could provide financial services for the rest of the world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I guess we can find some things to manufacture but unfortunately people wont work at the rates of some far eastern countries and will end up going on strike after 5 minutes anyway. Also when we make cheaper stuff like Rovers it ends up being god awful and nobody wants to buy it. Of course we can make the high quality stuff but the only people who can afford it are the same people who most on here want to burn on a cross, so maybe that one is out too. Or we could provide financial services for the rest of the world. :-) - Good to see that you are anti-minimum wage Also the Chinese thing explains a lot why Gideon and Dave have gone complete and utter U turn on the finance sector and now will continue to blame the public sector workforce etc for the financial problems of this country. Would the whole Robin Hood tax thing now have a greater impact if Gideon's plan were to actually happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 40 year old women inn Blimey that would be a pub and a half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 In the short-term, we could definitely do with the boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted January 16, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 16, 2012 :-) - Good to see that you are anti-minimum wage I'm not, but little we can do to compete with places like Cambodia. Also the Chinese thing explains a lot why Gideon and Dave have gone complete and utter U turn on the finance sector and now will continue to blame the public sector workforce etc for the financial problems of this country. Lot's of that going on recently isnt there :-) Would the whole Robin Hood tax thing now have a greater impact if Gideon's plan were to actually happen? I think the Robin Hood Tax is good but only if worldwide, Im suprised you dont actually agree with the Tories stance on this. You may say they are protecting their mates, but they are also protecting a large amount of income for the country. Personally I think all the finance industry needs is more regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts