Bolitics The New Condem Government

[drat01]

but not enough for you to post any of it Wink

PS , Are they like the same prediction you made about interest rate rises in 2010 Wink

Tony the reason why interest rates cannot rise is because the Tory party have screwed the economy up so badly it could not stand a rise. As for evidence, Jeez while the Tory led machine said massive cuts and attacks on the general public were the way forward (all in it together bollox) many said that a better way was gradual deficit reduction. It seems the latter were correct and Gideon with his lack of plan B is now seriously up shit creek

apart from the Daily Mirror and Socialist worker do you have any credible sources for this claim ..

You are kidding me aren't you? The media is littered with articles showing how the poor is being hit hardest and the rich are prospering. Not in the Mirror or Socialist Worker. Maybe you can show how we are all in this together and how the rich are paying more and being impacted?

here's hoping , after all a repeat of one of Britians greatest ever PM's is hardly a bad thing is it ... tbh I don't see Cameron strong enough to beat the Unions the way Thatcher did but then Thatcher wasn't being held back by a weak Liberal party

Interesting slip there Tony, why do the Unions have to be "beaten" ? Basically you are admitting that the Tory party line is wanting to rid the workers of any Unions?

[mjmooney]

This is what 32 years of thatcherism does to a country

He pointed out that the UK's savings culture has all but disappeared, with the Office for National Statistics stating that Britons are saving less money each month than at any time since 1959 and disposable income is at its lowest in the UK since 1921.

That bit in bold is - without some further explanation - a meaningless factoid.

Does he mean "on average"?

Far be it from me to defend the current state of affairs, but I would have thought (and I admit it's only a guess) that - compared to 1921 - the UK has about the same number of very, very rich people, considerably more "somewhat" rich people, and considerably fewer very, very poor people. That's surely been the general trend, regardless of changing governments?

[Jon]

is shown that the rich are massively richer, the majority of the poor and those on lower incomes are being hit the hardest.

apart from the Daily Mirror and Socialist worker do you have any credible sources for this claim ..

The poverty gap US growing, and grew under Labour.

IMO they did not do enough to address this, and I have sincere doubts The Tories are really going to fare any better in this area.

Time will tell, but I have zero faith ....

it's simply not in their ethos.

Poverty Gap Widens

[drat01]

A little "factoid" for Tony who refuses to accept that this Gvmt are making things a lot worse

In 2010 the wealth of just the 1,000 richest individuals in this country - as measured by The Sunday Times - was £333.5bn.

After a year of everyone being exhorted to pull together and share the burden, the wealth of this top 1,000 had increased to £395.8bn.

And another article :-)

Poor pay more than rich

Poor hit by far higher inflation rate than rich in wake of recession, says IFS

• Least well off households pay 4.3%, while the richest pay 2.7%

• Soaring food and energy bills cause worst impact

.......

[blandy]

Tony the reason why interest rates cannot rise is because successive governments have screwed the economy up..

fixed for you. yes the tories are twunts, and God protect us from ever getting that evil witch back, or anything like, but it aint all the current gov't's fault. It goes back to the witch and reagan, and carries on through Clinton, Blair, BNrown etc to the current unlovelies in the job.

[mjmooney]

A little "factoid" for Tony who refuses to accept that this Gvmt are making things a lot worse

In 2010 the wealth of just the 1,000 richest individuals in this country - as measured by The Sunday Times - was £333.5bn.

After a year of everyone being exhorted to pull together and share the burden, the wealth of this top 1,000 had increased to £395.8bn.

And this is where Callmedave's Tories Lite hit major cognitive dissonance.

The old school Conservative Party never made any pretence that they weren't on the side of the rich. Thatcher would have trumpeted that statistic as a GOOD thing. The only attempt to placate the great unwashed was to repeat the old lie enough times in the hope that they'd buy it: the rich getting richer is ultimately good for the country, the wealth "trickles down", it increases business prosperity, blah blah blah.

I'd have more respect for Lord Snooty and his pals if they just owned up, instead of this ludicrous "caring, sharing" pretence.

[tonyh29]

the reason why interest rates cannot rise is because the Tory party have screwed the economy up so badly

so nothing happened previously to the Tories winning in 2010 , it was purely the Tories fault and only started in 2010 :shock:

Poor hit by far higher inflation rate than rich in wake of recession, says IFS

• Least well off households pay 4.3%, while the richest pay 2.7%

• Soaring food and energy bills cause worst impact

on the poor losing out more I'm still struggling to see how this is true

Don't get me wrong I'm not looking for sympathy but after deductions I lose over 50% of my salary in taxes and NI , I will shortly lose the child support money that goes to my non working wife and I believe I will also lose the NI rebate I get on the school fees i pay out ... It costs me over £90 to fill up my car with petrol .. Despite all that sometimes I still have some disposable income so I might buy a new TV which I pay vat on at 20% , but where as Mr poor down the road is paying say £40 in Vat , my TV is costing me £300 in Vat ... Quite possibly i have a bigger house than Mr poor but thus my bills are higher than his , my council tax is higher (as is the VAT i then pay on those items) .. the "poor" families that I see when I'm out doing my food shop appear to have enough money to feed their £5 a packet of cigarettes habit and they also appear to have enough left over for their visits to the pub opposite where i work as well .... Then I have my Nan who spent years being careful and was able to accumulate savings of about £80,000 in her life time (she never owned a house so doesn't 't have any other assets) ... £800 a week she has paid to be in a care home to the point that she now has next to nothing , you can argue of course she doesn't need it any more, but everyone else in that care home is there for free because they were "poor" where as my Nan was deemed to be filthy rich !!!

and I hope my post isn't seen as facetious , there is a touch of stereotype going on in there to try and make my point , but I would still question that it is the "poor" being hammered and would say it's middle England where the likes of myself sit that are taking the major brunt in all this .. yep i sympathise with the really poor nobody should have to live like that in the developed world , but I saw little old ladies doing a food shop that consisted of Tesco value beans at 28p a can long before this Tory government ever got into power

[snowychap]

after deductions I lose over 50% of my salary in taxes and NI

Are you sure?

there is a touch of stereotype going on in there to try and make my point

Is part of your point not that you are looking at things in absolute terms rather than proportionally which is how one would usually determine the effects upon people.

[tonyh29]

Are you sure?

Sadly yes , i have a few other "perks" that make a dent ... of course that skews things slightly and why I was vague on it :winkold:

Is part of your point not that you are looking at things in absolute terms rather than proportionally which is how one would usually determine the effects upon people.

is there any reason they measure it that way or is it that just deemed to be the fairest way ?

[snowychap]

Are you sure?

Sadly yes , i have a few other "perks" that make a dent ... of course that skews things slightly and why I was vague on it :winkold:

So, not over 50% in income tax and NI, then?

Is part of your point not that you are looking at things in absolute terms rather than proportionally which is how one would usually determine the effects upon people.

is there any reason they measure it that way or is it that just deemed to be the fairest way ?

Nothing about being 'fair' just being sensible especially when looking at comparing effects upon different income groups.

[blandy]

Initially I thought perhaps it would be best just to get rid of the poor - you know, have them all put down. It's the obvious solution - they smell, they have feral children, and lots of them, they go about on buses and in Vauxhall Novas with no road tax or insurance. But then I had a bit of a think and realised that would be bad, and also (possibly?) unethical, but mainly no one would empty the bins, clean the schools, or look after us when we're old or ill.

So then I looked at getting rid of the middle income lot (excluding me, of course), but it quickly became clear that it's these folk who pay all the taxes, so that's a non starter.

So my focus fell upon the rich. I noticed in my paper today that Charlie boy cost 18% more from the taxpayer, earnt shed loads off his jam, over-priced organic biscuits and his County, but is basically just a parasite. And he's one of the better ones! If we got rid of the rich, then there'd be less braying of course, in wine bars and parliament. There would be a lot less bankers, consultants, toffs and closet nazis. Basically a win all round. The feckers hardly pay any tax, they mess the country up, they drive round in 4x4s and chase you 'orf their land and dick about on horses chasing foxes.

Killing might be extreme, or unpalatable to some people, but couldn't we sell them to somewhere in need of an upper class?

[mjmooney]

Thorntons set to close up to 180 shops

Thorntons is to close up to 180 stores over the next three years following a strategic review of its business.

The chocolate maker, which gave a profit warning in May, said "a minimum" of 120 shops would shut, with the possibility of an extra 60 closures.

Thorntons said the outlets that will be closed are among the 364 stores directly owned and run by the company.

It said it hoped to replace them with franchised stores "in the majority of locations".

Thorntons currently has 227 shops run by franchisees.

Shares in the company were down 5% in London trading.

'Refocusing'

The company added that it would continue to expand its commercial division, which sells Thornton-branded chocolate via supermarkets and other retailers.

In addition, it aims to continue to grow sales via its website.

Thorntons also said it wanted its sales to become less dependent on seasonal events such as Easter and Christmas.

To do this, it is introducing a new range of smaller chocolate gift products for birthday presents, anniversary gifts or thank you presents.

Chief executive Jonathan Hart said: "Our goal is to refocus the business across all channels, and seek to deliver industry competitive results over the next three to five years.

"Although we see the prospect of weakness in High Street footfall and consumer sentiment continuing, I am confident that this strategy is right."

Thorntons' warning of continuing weak trading comes as a number of retailers are struggling against a backdrop of lower consumer spending.

BBC

[Demitri_C]

Don't get me wrong I'm not looking for sympathy but after deductions I lose over 50% of my salary in taxes and NI , I will shortly lose the child support money that goes to my non working wife and I believe I will also lose the NI rebate I get on the school fees i pay out ... It costs me over £90 to fill up my car with petrol .. Despite all that sometimes I still have some disposable income so I might buy a new TV which I pay vat on at 20% , but where as Mr poor down the road is paying say £40 in Vat , my TV is costing me £300 in Vat ... Quite possibly i have a bigger house than Mr poor but thus my bills are higher than his , my council tax is higher (as is the VAT i then pay on those items) .. the "poor" families that I see when I'm out doing my food shop appear to have enough money to feed their £5 a packet of cigarettes habit and they also appear to have enough left over for their visits to the pub opposite where i work as well .... Then I have my Nan who spent years being careful and was able to accumulate savings of about £80,000 in her life time (she never owned a house so doesn't 't have any other assets) ... £800 a week she has paid to be in a care home to the point that she now has next to nothing , you can argue of course she doesn't need it any more, but everyone else in that care home is there for free because they were "poor" where as my Nan was deemed to be filthy rich !!!

I symapthise with you ton, as people from an outside view dont actually realise even if you ahve abit of money your still get **** over for your money

[PauloBarnesi]

Tony the reason why interest rates cannot rise is because successive governments have screwed the economy up..

fixed for you. yes the tories are twunts, and God protect us from ever getting that evil witch back, or anything like, but it aint all the current gov't's fault. It goes back to the witch and reagan, and carries on through Clinton, Blair, BNrown etc to the current unlovelies in the job.

No it doesn’t. Britain’s problems have been going far longer that; fighting two world wars and both the humanitarian (how many educated officers did we lost in the RAF during WWII?) and financial issues (we no longer had the money to invest). Then add successive governments and various short sighted solutions and you can see that the malaise has been their for such a long long time. Our dreadful worker/employee relations weren’t something that belong to the Thatcher era; they had been ongoing since the 50s.

This isn’t to let Thatcher off the hook. Its rather history will judge she was one of many bad leaders this country has had, both Conservative and Labour...

[tonyh29]

So, not over 50% in income tax and NI, then?

no but just to be clear I didn't state "income" tax .

appreciate your post was a question rather than a statement but just so I its clear I wasn't totally misleading everyone

[tonyh29]

but mainly no one would empty the bins, clean the schools, or look after us when we're old or ill.

Not as long as we have Poland :winkold:

[LondonLax]

Thorntons set to close up to 180 shops

Thorntons is to close up to 180 stores over the next three years following a strategic review of its business.

The chocolate maker, which gave a profit warning in May, said "a minimum" of 120 shops would shut, with the possibility of an extra 60 closures.

Thorntons said the outlets that will be closed are among the 364 stores directly owned and run by the company.

It said it hoped to replace them with franchised stores "in the majority of locations".

Thorntons currently has 227 shops run by franchisees.

Shares in the company were down 5% in London trading.

'Refocusing'

The company added that it would continue to expand its commercial division, which sells Thornton-branded chocolate via supermarkets and other retailers.

In addition, it aims to continue to grow sales via its website.

Thorntons also said it wanted its sales to become less dependent on seasonal events such as Easter and Christmas.

To do this, it is introducing a new range of smaller chocolate gift products for birthday presents, anniversary gifts or thank you presents.

Chief executive Jonathan Hart said: "Our goal is to refocus the business across all channels, and seek to deliver industry competitive results over the next three to five years.

"Although we see the prospect of weakness in High Street footfall and consumer sentiment continuing, I am confident that this strategy is right."

Thorntons' warning of continuing weak trading comes as a number of retailers are struggling against a backdrop of lower consumer spending.

BBC

How often do you go to Thorntons though?

They should set up a dedicated stall in supermarkets like Donut King do. They'd get much more passing trade then.

[blandy]

...Britain’s problems have been going far longer that; fighting two world wars and both the humanitarian (how many educated officers did we lost in the RAF during WWII?) and financial issues (we no longer had the money to invest). Then add successive governments and various short sighted solutions and you can see that the malaise has been their for such a long long time. Our dreadful worker/employee relations weren’t something that belong to the Thatcher era; they had been ongoing since the 50s.

This isn’t to let Thatcher off the hook. Its rather history will judge she was one of many bad leaders this country has had, both Conservative and Labour...

Maybe so - though I was really referring to the whole western financial system collapse, at which was a root cause of de-regulation and loosening of constraints started by the mad trans-atlantic twosome and continued ever since.

[drat01]

How often do you go to Thorntons though?

They should set up a dedicated stall in supermarkets like Donut King do. They'd get much more passing trade then.

A lot of their business is like that. The problem is the downturn in the economy, primarily caused by the cuts and the raise in VAT etc, means that people are cutting back on their little treats such as Thorntons chocolate. As with all of these its not just the shops that are affected, the factory is losing staff which in turn affects the local economy. As this is in the North I suspect there will be little in the way of remorse from this Gvmt

[PauloBarnesi]

...Britain’s problems have been going far longer that; fighting two world wars and both the humanitarian (how many educated officers did we lost in the RAF during WWII?) and financial issues (we no longer had the money to invest). Then add successive governments and various short sighted solutions and you can see that the malaise has been their for such a long long time. Our dreadful worker/employee relations weren’t something that belong to the Thatcher era; they had been ongoing since the 50s.

This isn’t to let Thatcher off the hook. Its rather history will judge she was one of many bad leaders this country has had, both Conservative and Labour...

Maybe so - though I was really referring to the whole western financial system collapse, at which was a root cause of de-regulation and loosening of constraints started by the mad trans-atlantic twosome and continued ever since.

I agree to some point that deregulation is to blame. But I think also we seem to have turned into a society where no one takes any responsibility for their actions, whether it be bankers, or it be the people who buy sixteen houses and then wonder why they can’t afford it, etc. Maybe Thatcher and Reagan were responsible for that, but I think we are increasingly looking at a huge part of the population who:

a) believe that their actions are not responsible for their problems

the state should be there to look after them...