Risso Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 inapropriate degrees How are they inappropriate? Degrees aren't necessarily (and certainly shouldn't necessarily be in my book) either vocational courses or with some specific career in mind. There's an argument that there's an element of self betterment to all degrees I suppose, but that could just as easily be achieved by becoming a skilled plumber or mechanic I reckon. Just how many media studies graduates does a country need before you say "enough is enough"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just how many media studies graduates does a country need before you say "enough is enough"? 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2011 There's an argument that there's an element of self betterment to all degrees I suppose, but that could just as easily be achieved by becoming a skilled plumber or mechanic I reckon. Just how many media studies graduates does a country need before you say "enough is enough"? My no doubt biased and inaccurate perception is that it would be rather harder work to be come a qualified plumber or mechanic, that to get a degree in meeja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just how many media studies graduates does a country need before you say "enough is enough"? 2?If you start from the perspective that the majority of the country's subjects live in a bubble where the mainstream media output is consumed with little validation or checks and where if something isn't reported through the mainstream media then it never happened, I'd suggest there is a great shortage of media studies graduates. Media studies may not seem like the most intellectually challenging, but it is one of the subjects that will really only developed within university campuses. I'd be happier seeing more of the computer science stuff moved out to tertiary technical colleges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 it used to be the case that society invested in the people, educated them and reaped the rewards. Now the view seems to be that you invest in yourself and you reap the rewards. The reality is that the banks will invest in your education and they'll reap rewards. Me-centric politics. Something else has changed though. It used to be the case that Uni was very much a minority step following leaving school. For various reasons, including keeping people off the dole figures, as well as a desire, perhaps, that more people should have access to Uni level education, I think it's a (narrow) majority of school leavers who go on to Uni. That's one hell of a shed load extra courses to be paid for.A few years back my proposal for a graduate tax was to split it half between the institute they graduate studied at and half for a central education fund. So University A produces Nursing graduate Jane Bloggs, Jane earns £40k, out of the £400 garduate tax, £200 goes back to her college, £200 into a central pool. Colleges or unis that produce high worth graduates would earn more money. Colleges would shut down courses that don't earn money. This would drive the numer of students back down again. The central fund would be there as the safety net, to ensure that certain disciplines are kept alive, that courses that Unis discard are rehoused in technical or specialist colleges, and to ensure access to higher education for those that need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just how many media studies graduates does a country need before you say "enough is enough"? 2?If you start from the perspective that the majority of the country's subjects live in a bubble where the mainstream media output is consumed with little validation or checks and where if something isn't reported through the mainstream media then it never happened, I'd suggest there is a great shortage of media studies graduates. I'd say that's the fault of the people primarily rather than having insufficient media studies grad's. Anyone who cares to look past the end of their nose can see that MSM is a joke. Citizen jounalism is the way forward but the question is how to bring sufficient people together online to share and assess information without indviduals/website owners being sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerlad Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 BBC breaking news Former Labour MP Eric Illsley sentenced to 12 months in jail for expenses fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just how many media studies graduates does a country need before you say "enough is enough"? 2?If you start from the perspective that the majority of the country's subjects live in a bubble where the mainstream media output is consumed with little validation or checks and where if something isn't reported through the mainstream media then it never happened, I'd suggest there is a great shortage of media studies graduates. I'd say that's the fault of the people primarily rather than having insufficient media studies grad's. I'd say the lack of knowledge and awareness at a general levell is at least part due to the lack of education at an individual and peer level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I heard a snippet on the news in my car earlier that apprenticeship numbers had doubled over the past 5 years... excellent news. Still needs to be higher IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 There's an argument that there's an element of self betterment to all degrees... There's an argument that bettering oneself is at the heart of gaining knowledge and skills in whatever arena and by whatever means; I'd also suggest that there's an argument that a society betters itself (or at the very least greatly improves its chances of bettering itself) when those who make up that society better themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2011 There's also an argument that many people go to Uni as "something to do" and then drop out because they were never motivated to go there to learn, or better themselves. I mean it was free, and then later at least pretty cheap. Maybe the notion that it is important to work hard and study and be capable of passing the course because that's the way to be able to pay the costs back might cause some people to choose things genuinely more appropriate for their aims and abilities. There are many schools and colleges who want their figures to show a high percentage of their pupils going to Uni, to keep up in the league tables, and maybe they encourage students to go to Uni for their own ends, against the best interests of the students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Maybe the notion that it is important to work hard and study and be capable of passing the course because that's the way to be able to pay the costs back ... Maybe that will create an even larger generation of people who view the world mainly, if not solely, in pecuniary terms, who are only motivated by financial rewards and/or are manacled through arrangement to not rocking the boat and thus are conditioned even more to just be cogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 There's an argument that there's an element of self betterment to all degrees I suppose, but that could just as easily be achieved by becoming a skilled plumber or mechanic I reckon. Just how many media studies graduates does a country need before you say "enough is enough"? My no doubt biased and inaccurate perception is that it would be rather harder work to be come a qualified plumber or mechanic, that to get a degree in meeja Depends on the person, doesn't it? Some people are intelligent in terms of applied technology, others in more abstract reasoning, and often each find the opposite discipline challenging. I don't think that means that one is harder work than the other, or that "harder work" is inherently more worthwhile. I am tempted to refer again to the terminally incompetent arsescratching who plumbed my bathroom, but then again I know I shouldn't generalise from a particular like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Maybe the notion that it is important to work hard and study and be capable of passing the course because that's the way to be able to pay the costs back ... Maybe that will create an even larger generation of people who view the world mainly, if not solely, in pecuniary terms, who are only motivated by financial rewards and/or are manacled through arrangement to not rocking the boat and thus are conditioned even more to just be cogs? Yes. Never mind all the stuff about "there's this big deficit we inherited, we have no choice...". That always was and always will be the big lie, the cover for what they want to do. And what they want to do is privatise the cost of education, while socialising the cost of bank failure. Where some years ago we would have borne the cost of education while letting speculators stand or fall by the strength of their judgement, that is now reversed. We bail out the speculator no matter how damaging their decisions, and we tell students they're on their own. Education is removed from being a common good, to being a personal calculation: can I afford it? Will it pay me back? While we bail out the **** chancers who have brought the economy to its knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Maybe the notion that it is important to work hard and study and be capable of passing the course because that's the way to be able to pay the costs back ... Maybe that will create an even larger generation of people who view the world mainly, if not solely, in pecuniary terms, who are only motivated by financial rewards and/or are manacled through arrangement to not rocking the boat and thus are conditioned even more to just be cogs? Yes. Never mind all the stuff about "there's this big deficit we inherited, we have no choice...". That always was and always will be the big lie, the cover for what they want to do. And what they want to do is privatise the cost of education, while socialising the cost of bank failure. Where some years ago we would have borne the cost of education while letting speculators stand or fall by the strength of their judgement, that is now reversed. We bail out the speculator no matter how damaging their decisions, and we tell students they're on their own. Education is removed from being a common good, to being a personal calculation: can I afford it? Will it pay me back? While we bail out the **** chancers who have brought the economy to its knees. Peter you've made some strong and totally justified criticisms of the new Gov'ts policies, but suggesting that socialising bank failure was a Tory policy seems like revisionism. As I remember many Tory types were saying "let them fail and the market do its work" while Labour supporters (and more importantly, Ministers) were clamouring for the bail out. I also disagree with privatisng education (and the NHS to come) but again these policies are a continuation of exactly what Labour were doing. All of the main stream MP's are on the wrong side of this (at least when they are in Gov) so trying to pin it or one party or the other seems to be missing the point a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I also disagree with privatisng education (and the NHS to come) but again these policies are a continuation of exactly what Labour were doing. How wrong is that statement? The policies encouraged and steamrollered through by the Tory Gvmt are nothing like what Labour previously were doing. This is another attempt to justify their attacks by trying to deflect from the idea that this Tory Gvmt despite their lies is built on an ideology of far right thinking. It has always been a long held thinking within the Tory party to reduce (and ultimately kill off) the NHS. They are afraid to come out with it but their policies have always shown that and this Gvmt are attacking them at break neck speed using the world economic crisis as some sort of justification. Attacks on public services, VAT rises, supporting their backers were dismissed pre election as scare tactics. It gives many no satisfaction to be proven 100% correct on them as this country now is and will continue to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 11, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 11, 2011 Some people are intelligent in terms of applied technology, others in more abstract reasoning, and often each find the opposite discipline challenging. I don't think that means that one is harder work than the other, or that "harder work" is inherently more worthwhile. Absolutely. My feeling is that a large number of people more suited to work in "applied technology" or cooking or plumbing or a thousand different trades are currently going to Uni when they'd be better off doing something they're good at, or could be good at with training. Too many people go to Uni. Schools are not adequate in terms of consistenly educating younger people to a standard necessary for making the most of Uni. Money and effort shoyuld be spent on improving schooling, not on giving inadequately educated people (from all walks of life) free University lectures. ANd Labour, as AWOL says, were every bit as bad as the Tories when it comes to dealing with the banks. They had the wehip hand when they bailed the banks out. "Here's your life raft, now hand me your bonuses in return" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Maybe the notion that it is important to work hard and study and be capable of passing the course because that's the way to be able to pay the costs back ... Maybe that will create an even larger generation of people who view the world mainly, if not solely, in pecuniary terms, who are only motivated by financial rewards and/or are manacled through arrangement to not rocking the boat and thus are conditioned even more to just be cogs? Yes. Never mind all the stuff about "there's this big deficit we inherited, we have no choice...". That always was and always will be the big lie, the cover for what they want to do. And what they want to do is privatise the cost of education, while socialising the cost of bank failure. Where some years ago we would have borne the cost of education while letting speculators stand or fall by the strength of their judgement, that is now reversed. We bail out the speculator no matter how damaging their decisions, and we tell students they're on their own. Education is removed from being a common good, to being a personal calculation: can I afford it? Will it pay me back? While we bail out the **** chancers who have brought the economy to its knees.Interesting concepts there as many of the "**** chancers" and speculators probably used the education system to get to their position. I also disagree with privatisng education (and the NHS to come) but again these policies are a continuation of exactly what Labour were doing. How wrong is that statement? Not nearly as wrong as this It has always been a long held thinking within the Tory party to reduce (and ultimately kill off) the NHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I also disagree with privatisng education (and the NHS to come) but again these policies are a continuation of exactly what Labour were doing. How wrong is that statement? The policies encouraged and steamrollered through by the Tory Gvmt are nothing like what Labour previously were doing. This is another attempt to justify their attacks by trying to deflect from the idea that this Tory Gvmt despite their lies is built on an ideology of far right thinking. It has always been a long held thinking within the Tory party to reduce (and ultimately kill off) the NHS. They are afraid to come out with it but their policies have always shown that and this Gvmt are attacking them at break neck speed using the world economic crisis as some sort of justification. Attacks on public services, VAT rises, supporting their backers were dismissed pre election as scare tactics. It gives many no satisfaction to be proven 100% correct on them as this country now is and will continue to suffer. Agree with this 100%. They will eventually pay the price at the ballot box. One can only hope they don't do too much damage to the NHS before then. They're a bunch of opportunists using the current economic difficulties to advance their own nasty little agenda. They'll never change. How sad that the Lib Dems in their grubby pursuit of power are prepared to go along with so much they are ideologically opposed to. The Tories will take a drubbing at the polls over this, the Lib Dems could disappear altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Over 7000 jobs will now go from B'ham council link This Gvmt is determined to kill of the NHS, put millions more on the dole from the public sector, increase taxes that affect Joe Public. Despite the usual rhetoric from the Tory representatives, they have had a long term aim to do all of this, it's part of their ideology. The LibDem's carry as much blame for allowing this to happen. The people of this country did not vote for this, the LibDem's have allowed it to happen - shame on the Tory party, shame on the LibDems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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