Bolitics The New Condem Government

[snowychap]

It's quite obvious that the adverse weather conditions will have had a detrimental effect on economic activity both before christmas and early last year.

To rely upon them to explain figures completely or to attempt to focus the public's attention so crassly upon it (Osborne's interview responses yesterday were exactly the same in format as a couple of months ago when he repeated one answer to about eight different questions) shows the level of contempt that politicians have for the elctorate, in my view.

Mervyn's comments were much more interesting but ought to be viewed as much more worrying for the average bear (and beyond, possibly).

On a side note, I ventured out on to the 'high street' yesterday which I don't often do and Worcester was dead. It looked like a sunday afternoon/bank holiday when a lot of high street shops are shut. This time, however, all of the shops that were still around were open and pretty much empty. I was quite shocked.

[snowychap]

Hahahaha.

Cameron says, "We are no longer being linked with Greece, Spain and Ireland." (Not, possibly, verbatim)

Yes, Dave, that's because you and the village idiot have stopped doing the linking, you effing pratt.

[blandy]

Torygraph lays into Tories

No need to scrap Nimrod

Telegraph View: This rushed review was mishandled by an inexperienced new government.

The extent to which last summer’s security and defence review was driven by cost-cutting rather than a long-term strategic vision is underscored by the fate of the Nimrod MRA4 maritime patrol aircraft. This £4 billion project has already been paid for, yet these sophisticated aircraft, whose capabilities are unmatched by any other plane flying anywhere, will never take to the air. Indeed, the physical destruction of the nine existing airframes has already started.

As senior former military chiefs from all three services make clear in a letter on this page, this act of vandalism will leave a “massive gap” in our national security. The Nimrods were designed to play a vital role in supporting the Trident nuclear submarine fleet; in providing long-range reconnaissance over land and sea; and in combating terrorism. They have fallen victim to the determination of a coterie of senior RAF figures that the service would emerge from the defence review with its squadrons of fast jets largely intact – and a big ticket project had to be sacrificed as a consequence. Yet the Ministry of Defence is already being warned that the gap left by Nimrod will have to be filled within three years by buying an expensive off the-shelf replacement from the United States, almost certainly the Boeing 737 P8A Poseidon. To add insult to injury, the Boeing simply does not have the same capabilities as Nimrod.

This is a shambolic approach to national defence. Coming on top of the scrapping of the Harrier jump jets, which will leave our two costly new aircraft carriers without aircraft, it confirms that this rushed review was mishandled by an inexperienced new government. At the very least, the remaining Nimrods should be mothballed, not junked, with a view to commissioning them at a future date. David Cameron should intervene now to ensure this is done.

[drat01]

Another terrible week for this awful Gvmt that we have now.

Nowhere were they given a mandate for so many of the cuts and attacks they are making but still the steam-roller ahead with them, despite the warning from areas such as the CBI and many people in the financial world. Today its announced that anther major drop in consumer confidence, the biggest since 1929 is showing that no one except those doing this to help their paymasters and their own idealogical beliefs believe that this is a good thing.

link

Last night there was a programme on TV about the North / South divide and how these awful cuts will affect the Midlands and North while the Tory heartlands of the south will be a lot better off.

[tonyh29]

I switched off when i saw Prescott but the brief bit I saw I do believe he admitted that they had failed in addressing the North / South divide ..

but yeah shame on the coalition for not achieving in 8 months what the previous government failed to achieve in 13 years

the whole country and his dog knows we are in for a tough couple of years , wouldn't have mattered which party got elected , VAT was going up whoever won , cuts were coming whoever won ...

I'd rather have Clegg and Cameron trying to sort this than Brown or Ed , at least they were architects of the reason we are in this mess .. no guarantee that this means they will get us out but only a fool would pretend that Ed has the answers , even his own party know that , hence why they didn't vote for him

[blandy]

I think the "growth" figures (actually shrunk) will get revised up in due course, but I think Gideon is the last person from any of the party's economy bods who I'd want in charge of the defecit plan.

[drat01]

The thing is Pete already the Tory supporters are in massive denial as to the impact that the policies are having despite some of who should be their biggest allies in people like the CBI and world economists warning them that the plans are wrong.

Cameron is failing miserably - Tony you say that in the 8 months of the Gvmt, but the divide in that time due to their policies are making things worse and will continue to do so. They are failing to address this but remain committed to their core support in the south.

I see today that Francis Maude will not rule anti-strike legislation - what world are we living in now?

Sure Start - both parts of this Gvmt committed to retaining this pre-election - and of course they are now hitting it hard!

Control Orders - they have made a big thing about how they have got rid of them, the big BUT is that they have replaced them with exactly the same under a different name - and not surprisingly at a cost!

[tonyh29]

I see today that Francis Maude will not rule anti-strike legislation - what world are we living in now?

if you want to be like the French then go live in France and you can have as many strikes as makes you happy

the CBI is interesting , where you listing them as a credible source when they launched a scathing assessment of Labour's handling of the economy .. or have they traded places on the axis of evil list with Murdoch ?

There is of course the usual H word stuff when you start accusing the tories of only looking after their own but hey end of the day there will be winners and losers whilst this situation is resolved , the poor are saying they are the losers and the rich(ish) are saying it's them that are losing ...

on the good news front ID cards were removed on the 21st Jan as legal forms of identity in this country and if nothing else for that alone we should thank this coalition

Blandy raises an interesting thought though Osborne or Balls running the economy ..it's like asking who you would rather baby sit for your kids Kate McCann or Louise Woodward

[blandy]

I see today that Francis Maude will not rule anti-strike legislation - what world are we living in now?

if you want to be like the French then go live in France and you can have as many strikes as makes you happy

that's a ridiculous "argument" tony.

1. People can't just up and move, and especially so when an employer abuses their position.

the CBI is interesting , where you listing them as a credible source when they launched a scathing assessment of Labour's handling of the economy .. or have they traded places on the axis of evil list with Murdoch ?

the CBI is the body that says it represents the interests of business. It is made up of wealthy, mostly Tory supporting people and companies. Their comments are biased towards what they see as what they want, and they said about both Labour and the current lot that they think there are problems.

There is of course the usual H word stuff when you start accusing the tories of only looking after their own but hey end of the day there will be winners and losers whilst this situation is resolved , the poor are saying they are the losers and the rich(ish) are saying it's them that are losing ...

and the independent sources say it is more the poor and than the rich that are losing out through things like VAT and so on.

on the good news front ID cards were removed on the 21st Jan as legal forms of identity in this country and if nothing else for that alone we should thank this coalition

Blandy raises an interesting thought though Osborne or Balls running the economy ..it's like asking who you would rather baby sit for your kids Kate McCann or Louise Woodward

[Gringo]

I see today that Francis Maude will not rule anti-strike legislation - what world are we living in now?

if you want to be like the French then go live in France and you can have as many strikes as makes you happy

Francis Maude asked that unions should be more like their european counterparts, so you may be right.

Did unions cause the problem? No, so let's have more anti-union legislation and slap the bankers on the wrist with a feather duster.

Unions (and worker solidarity in general) form an essential part of any operating modern industrial democracy. To attack them, for no reason can only be part of an underlying desire to skew the failed shamocracy even further in the wrong direction.

[tonyh29]

and the independent sources say it is more the poor and than the rich that are losing out through things like VAT and so on.

I've heard it said but i can't necessarily see how , (unless we are using different definitions of rich and poor ) but say for example

Mr poor buys a TV for £200 + vat with the increase he's now an extra £5 out of pocket , Mr Rich buys his tv for £2000 + vat he's now an extra £50 out of pocket

Mr Rich probably has a bigger house , a bigger car etc so his bills are likely to be higher , thus again he will be hit more by the increase

if you measure it in Mr Poor buys 1 packet of fags and Mr Rich buys the same packet then yes as a % of their incomes Mr Poor is going to feel it more and the tax is thus regressive but that isn't how they measure it surely ?

the CBI I was merely pointing out that using them when they suit ones argument and ignoring them when they didn't seemed a tad silly , I seem to recall the IMF have been quoted as the good guys recently as they said something anti this government where as pre this governemnt they were seen to be a body whose opinions didn't count

[tonyh29]

Did unions cause the problem? No,

they appear to be going down the root of strikes in protest at the cuts .. BA have already seen the effect of what strike action can do to a business

to strike and cause untold damage to industry and business is really what the economy needs right about now isn't it ?

[peterms]

The News International stuff gets more interesting the more I look into it. Back in 1999 the head of the original "investigation", Andy Hayman, was running the Met's complaints unit, and was himself engaged in illegal phone tapping leading to a failed prosecution against a colleague at a cost of £4m, for which his boss later publicly apologised, as well as the Met paying costs and damages to several individuals and to the National Black Police Association. Hayman's unit was found to use entrapment, non-disclosure to the defence of vital documents, double standards in pursuing complaints, and widespread breaches of laws regulating evidence-gathering.

He then authorised the bugging of an MP, Sadiq Khan. Despite Khan being the person who was representing several police officers who were suing the Met because of Hayman's actions against them, Hayman claimed not to know he was an MP when he authorised the bugging - a claim which David Davies MP has ridiculed.

Possibly this track record doesn't make him the best person to root out illegal phone tapping, though you could say he had relevant experience.

Moving on, he was involved in the de Menezes death, briefing journalists that they had the wrong man, but forgetting to mention this to his boss an hour later, who made a most inaccurate and embarrassing public set of false statements as a result. Hayman was stated by the IPCC to have deliberately withheld the information.

A couple of days later, the News of the World published a story which was very helpful to the police. Although stating that de Menezes was innocent, it introduced a pack of lies about him wearing a bulky coat, vaulting the ticket barrier and fleeing from police who were screaming for him to stop - all completely false, but believed by many at the time.

This favourable coverage came courtesy of Andy Coulson, who Hayman was later tasked with investigating. The complaints came from Buckingham Palace, suspecting that members of the royal family and their staff had been bugged. Two years earlier, Rebekah Wade had told a Commons committee that they paid the police for stories (later corrected by a press person, as this would be illegal), and said she thought it right to engage in bugging if there is a public interest. Coulson then said he was unhappy with the amount of material coming his way from the Palace under the agreement that press wouldn't hound the royal family and in return would be given material.

In 2006, investigating the Palace complaints about bugging, Hayman discovered a mass of evidence potentially implicating a large number of people at News International. This evidence was not properly investigated. The police requested the DPP to have a very narrowly defined prosecution relating to tapping a couple of Palace employees, leaving the vast majority of offences to one side.

In 2007, Hayman was forced to resign on the back of an inquiry into expenses claims and foreign travel with a female assistant. He went to work for News International.

In 2009, an MP on a select committee changes his mind about voting to compel Rebekah Wade to give evidence, having been warned that if he does so, News International will pursue him over every aspect of his private life.

In 2010, the Home Office abandons plans to conduct an inquiry into the phone hacking issue, because internal lobbying by Stephen Rimmer, the Home Office director general for crime and policing, conveys a message that the Met would resent such an act. John Yates, now in charge of the "investigation", doesn't accept that there were any shortcomings in the failure to investigate the almost 3,000 cases where hacking may have happened but where no further information was sought by the police. Brian Paddick, former senior police officer, launches a judicial review, alleging the police have made misleading statements to parliament and failed to conduct a proper review.

In the Tommy Sheridan trial, Andy Coulson admits that he knows Andy Hayman socially.

In December, the police adopt a new approach, requiring people who suspect their phone has been illegally hacked to supply evidence that this may have happened, before the police will reveal to them evidence already gathered as part of the investigation.

In 2011, finally, because the story just won't go away, a further investigation is announced.

[drat01]

on the good news front ID cards were removed on the 21st Jan as legal forms of identity in this country and if nothing else for that alone we should thank this coalition

They were never "in" so to claim this as some sort of fantastic act is ludicrous. You say we should thank the Gvmt for that, frankly not at all, but the whole ID thing was done to death. I notice how passports have to be used now for so many ID checks - hmmmmm

Pete explains the CBI comments fair enough I think

Tony you are just playing the ridiculous argument re VAT by stating about TV's. What about VAT on so many things that affect daily life, not just luxury items. As Pete says the Indy and many many other organisations have proven the VAT changes impact the poor far greater than the rich - it explains why the Tory party has been the only ones ever to raise it

The IMF arguments were part of many an attack from our Tory supporting friends on VT when it suited under the last Gvmt, despite them praising as much as condemning the actions.

The bottom line is this Gvmt are now inflicting severe idealogical led policies, shamefully supported by Clegg and the rest of the Lib Dems. There is little, more likely no mandate for any of these, but they try and hide behind glib statements about how there is no alternative. They have lied constantly about what they wont impact and even today we see that Gideon lied in October about Sure Start. The impacts of these cuts and the way and manner of them hasn't even really hit hard yet and already we are staring at falling back into recession, mass unemployment (in areas typically that are not Tory) and spiralling costs. This is a rerun of the bad old days of Thatcher but unlike her where it took a period of years, this lot are doing it in weeks.

[drat01]

BA have already seen the effect of what strike action can do to a business

So many of BA's problems are down to an totally inept boss in Walsh not the unions - he is the one that the Gvmt should get rid of

[drat01]

Peter as many have been saying for ages now this is a massive story that shows up a lot of very suspect practices across many areas. The fact that Coulson was so trusted by Cameron shows his failings up for all to see.

This could easily be the UK's Watergate

[Awol]

This could easily be the UK's Watergate

....and you say I exaggerate??!

[Jon]

This could easily be the UK's Watergate

Good point that Ian.

You're not far wrong IMO.

[drat01]

This could easily be the UK's Watergate

....and you say I exaggerate??!

Well Jon considering so far on this you have said there was no story, I think a wry smile is coming across my face.

This is a major story with a lot still to come out. The fact that Cameron even associated himself with Murdoch empire and Coulson in particular is such a bad move on his part.

The interesting thing will be how much information was obtained and then passed on to interested parties

But Jon (Rambo) you still maintain there is nothing going on, I wonder if you would have been so insistent if it had been Alistair Campbell - I suspect not

[Awol]

This could easily be the UK's Watergate

....and you say I exaggerate??!

Well Jon considering so far on this you have said there was no story, I think a wry smile is coming across my face.

This is a major story with a lot still to come out. The fact that Cameron even associated himself with Murdoch empire and Coulson in particular is such a bad move on his part.

The interesting thing will be how much information was obtained and then passed on to interested parties

But Jon (Rambo) you still maintain there is nothing going on, I wonder if you would have been so insistent if it had been Alistair Campbell - I suspect not

When this started to come out I said Coulson had been found guilty of nothing (you were making out that his appearance as a witness in Sheridan's perjury trial somehow incriminated him) but if he were to be then he'd deserved whatever came hs way. My position hasn't changed at all and if one of Murdoch's minions ends up doing porridge I'll have no problem with it at all.

It all comes back to one thing imo, the choice was either Cameron or Brown. Whilst I have no love for the former the latter was clearly insane. That Cameron has made mistakes in terms of policyand personel is no shock.

My post above was just ponting out that comparing a commerical newspaper bugging individuals to a sitting President bugging political rivals and burgling their offices is nonsense - because it is.