Bolitics The New Condem Government

[TrentVilla]

I really don't even want to think about tomorrow....

[snowychap]

you would find another loan at a ridiculous amount of interest

What ridiculous amount of interest?

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you would find another loan at a ridiculous amount of interest

What ridiculous amount of interest?

Blandy’s just highlighted that we’re currently paying £43 billion in interest a year. With less than £10% of that we could keep one of the Invincible Class in operation until 2016, put some F-18’s on board our carriers until the F-35 is ready and buy enough escorts to actually defend a taskforce.

[Chindie]

Managed to catch a bit of the news earlier that had a picture of Danny Alexander with tomorrows announcements, they reckoned one of the things on it had 450k jobs losses in tomorrows cuts, with the unions reckoning it's more like 1m over the next few years.

[TrentVilla]

We are all in this together (only some more than others)

[C4rvillan]

The defence cuts today are actually wasting money.

2 50 year old planes are decommisioned. An aircraft carrier with no use is decommisioned. Both of these alone will SAVE money. Maybe not straight away but in the long term.

As for your amputation metaphor, you let it heal you say, so we put our heads in the sand, carry on as if nothing is happening and hope something comes up to change this do we?

Cuts have to be made or would you rather we increase taxes to 40%?

Post edited - please keep it civil or if you can't don't join in the debate. Trent

[Chindie]

Every time I hear that phrase I can't help associating it with this

[Awol]

I find it rich that the Tory supporters, and especially those who seemingly have a military background, will not admit that this Gvmt are clueless in what they are doing and are hitting far too deeply and far too quickly.

I don't think the government generally is clueless* but by ring fencing the NHS and DFID they've really limited their room for manouvere. The waste in the NHS (particularly middle management) is staggering, as evidenced on here by BillyS and formerly by Ahmed, and ditto with international aid Whydo we give billions of pounds to countries with nuclear weapons and space programes, and another that spends a lot of its energy training people to fight us in Afghan or bomb us at home? That's crazy really.

In terms of defence I don't agree with what they have done and believe they have left dangerously wide gaps in our capabilities, however the fact remains that Labour spent 10's of billions on unfunded defence PFI's and now it's come back to bite us in the ass.

A plague on all their houses.

*I do think Osborne is a chopper though.

[markavfc40]

Managed to catch a bit of the news earlier that had a picture of Danny Alexander with tomorrows announcements, they reckoned one of the things on it had 450k jobs losses in tomorrows cuts, with the unions reckoning it's more like 1m over the next few years.

It will be at least another half a million on top of the 42k lost today. Add to that at least the same again as a knock on effect in the private sector and you will be looking at 1 million job losses at the very least. I'd estimate more like 1.5 million over the next couple of years.

This coalition keep waffling on how these job losses will be picked up with in the private sector but they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

These cuts which are way too deep too quick are going to have a catastrophic effect that will be felt for a generation.

[TrentVilla]

I find it rich that the Tory supporters, and especially those who seemingly have a military background, will not admit that this Gvmt are clueless in what they are doing and are hitting far too deeply and far too quickly.

I don't think the government generally is clueless* but by ring fencing the NHS and DFID they've really limited their room for manouvere. The waste in the NHS (particularly middle management) is staggering, as evidenced on here by BillyS and formerly by Ahmed, and ditto with international aid Whydo we give billions of pounds to countries with nuclear weapons and space programes, and another that spends a lot of its energy training people to fight us in Afghan or bomb us at home? That's crazy really.

In terms of defence I don't agree with what they have done and believe they have left dangerously wide gaps in our capabilities, however the fact remains that Labour spent 10's of billions on unfunded defence PFI's and now it's come back to bite us in the ass.

A plague on all their houses.

*I do think Osborne is a chopper though.

Totally agree. While I believe in the basic principles of the NHS and wouldn't want to see health care privatised it is very obvious there are some huge savings that could be made through simply stopping some of the current waste.

I find it odd that this government is so eager to route out waste yet have ring fenced one of if not the largest area of waste.

[Demitri_C]

I don't think the government generally is clueless* but by ring fencing the NHS and DFID they've really limited their room for manouvere. The waste in the NHS (particularly middle management) is staggering, as evidenced on here by BillyS and formerly by Ahmed, and ditto with international aid Whydo we give billions of pounds to countries with nuclear weapons and space programes, and another that spends a lot of its energy training people to fight us in Afghan or bomb us at home? That's crazy really.

agree with this, spekaing with experience a si work in nhs there are too many chiefs and not enough indians.

the business maangers earn pathetic money and dont do **** all.

[C4rvillan]

If they cut the NHS budget, there would be even more uproar than there is now. The NHS are the country's largest employer. Cutting that would make far more job losses than is expected now.

[C4rvillan]

To be honest, it doesn't matter what this govenrment do, they will be beaten by a stick as everyone knows we need to cut back but no-one wants to take it on the chin.

[snowychap]

Blandy’s just highlighted that we’re currently paying £43 billion in interest a year.

I'm quite well aware that the projected interest payment for 2010/11 is about 2.85% of GDP.

You are quite well aware, I'd have thought, of where that sits in terms of recent history, at the least, as you were present in the thread when we were discussing this last.

To make a rather curious point about the potential opportunity cost (with regard to one particular aspect of spending) of interest payments is slightly daft (though not as daft as the comparisons made by Fox during the Tory party conference and Osborne, well at every opportunity he gets, seemingly).

[TrentVilla]

If they cut the NHS budget, there would be even more uproar than there is now. The NHS are the country's largest employer. Cutting that would make far more job losses than is expected now.

So are you saying the cuts aren't about cutting waste they are about cuttng spending on the things they think people will won't be angry about?

[C4rvillan]

That is not what I have said at all. I have given a counter arguement to the poster saying that ring fencing the NHS budget has not given them room for manouever.

[TrentVilla]

That is not what I have said at all. I have given a counter arguement to the poster saying that ring fencing the NHS budget has not given them room for manouever.

Well either the government are serious about reducing debt through removing waste in which case they should have looked at the NHS.

Or they are serious about it but didn't want to face the backlash of looking for waste in something like the NHS.

[C4rvillan]

To be honest, it doesn't matter what this govenrment do, they will be beaten by a stick as everyone knows we need to cut back but no-one wants to take it on the chin.

Sorry to quote myself, but this!

[Awol]

This is illogical....

and lots more sense

Good post - again.

So are you saying the cuts aren't about cutting waste they are about cuttng spending on the things they think people will won't be angry about?

I think cast iron Dave has gone back on so many of his previous commitments (some by choice, some through necessity) that reversing his stance on the NHS has become politically impossible, even though it may be the best thing to do. Like you Trent I'd rather see education protected above anything else.

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Blandy’s just highlighted that we’re currently paying £43 billion in interest a year.

I'm quite well aware that the projected interest payment for 2010/11 is about 2.85% of GDP.

You are quite well aware, I'd have thought, of where that sits in terms of recent history, at the least, as you were present in the thread when we were discussing this last.

To make a rather curious point about the potential opportunity cost (with regard to one particular aspect of spending) of interest payments is slightly daft (though not as daft as the comparisons made by Fox during the Tory party conference and Osborne, well at every opportunity he gets, seemingly).

I think it’s neither curious nor daft, but rather evidence of the huge cost that the deficit and subsequent interest payments is having on Government spending. Its a milestone, as Blandy rightly suggests, that we need to address. I don’t think putting it into an historical context and saying it’s not that bad is a particular great argument for not addressing it.