snowychap Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Perhaps we're to become the taxi service of the worlds military. Will they charge by the mile or go for some kind of performance related (number of deaths/booty won/square miles conquered) payments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Perhaps we're to become the taxi service of the worlds military. French Rafales mate, we are being trimmed to play our part in EUFOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Without the jets on them (and enough support craft) the carriers may as well have a giant target painted on them should they need to be used in combat shortly. There hasn’t been any air-superiority aircraft in the FAA for some time now, by taking away the GR.9’s all we’re doing is completing the picture and removing our ground attack capability. Its quite disastrous what has happened to the Royal Navy in recent years and this cut is just another continuation of the jam tomorrow policy. I assume the Prince of Wales will have a CAT on it, but hopefully by that time the economy will have picked up enough for us to have stuck a few F-18's on the new platforms. I doubt the will of the Treasury though. The Treasury's line of thinking is that we haven't had proper carriers for 40 years, so whats the rush? Tossers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Nimrod MR4, binned. Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 19, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2010 Trident renewal being delayed by 5 years, saving £750m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 19, 2010 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2010 Yes, Awol, madness. There's no doubt whatsoever that it's a spending review, not a defence review. The need to have long range high endutrance, Search and Rescue, Maritime Reconnaissance, Anti-Submarine anti Surface Vessel, Comms co-ordination has not gone away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Trident renewal being delayed by 5 years, saving £750m. Was there mention of a cut of one of the SSBN's in that time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 19, 2010 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2010 pdf of the whole document Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The need to have long range high endutrance, Search and Rescue, Maritime Reconnaissance, Anti-Submarine anti Surface Vessel, Comms co-ordination has not gone away. Makes working on a Vanguard sub a bit more dicey too, what exactly is supposed to cover them when they put to see, Merlin?! More into SF which is good and the approach to cyber warfare is sensible, but overall I'm really not impressed. Was there mention of a cut of one of the SSBN's in that time? No mate, they will reduce the number of warheads per boat from 48 to 40 and drop a few tubes. Although in terms of who covers them, see above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 42k thousand direct jobs cut due to Mod cuts. Throw in at least another half a million after tomorrows announcements and the knock on effect probably costing the same amount of jobs at least in the private sector. Love to know where all these jobs in the private sector are going to come from to pick up this slack. Very, very dark months running into years ahead. Cuts are far too savage far too quick. Many people are going to pay a heavy price for Cameron and Osbournes incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 42k thousand direct jobs cut due to Mod cuts. Throw in at least another half a million after tomorrows announcements and the knock on effect probably costing the same amount of jobs at least in the private sector. Love to know where all these jobs in the private sector are going to come from to pick up this slack. Very, very dark months running into years ahead. Cuts are far too savage far too quick. Many people are going to pay a heavy price for Cameron and Osbournes incompetence. I don’t really see how you can argue that from a Labour perspective. The only difference between the coalition and the opposition is when the cuts would be made. A big cut now versus a staggered approach. Given what Ed Miliband has said about us being at our maximum threshold for what we can stand tax wise, then this suggests that ultimately Labour would have cut just as deep. If you were arguing from a non-partisan point of view then I think your argument would hold more credence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The need to have long range high endutrance, Search and Rescue, Maritime Reconnaissance, Anti-Submarine anti Surface Vessel, Comms co-ordination has not gone away. Makes working on a Vanguard sub a bit more dicey too, what exactly is supposed to cover them when they put to see, Merlin?! More into SF which is good and the approach to cyber warfare is sensible, but overall I'm really not impressed. Was there mention of a cut of one of the SSBN's in that time? No mate, they will reduce the number of warheads per boat from 48 to 40 and drop a few tubes. Although in terms of who covers them, see above... I’m just reading Blandy’s document now. All we can hope is that come the next review five years down the line, there will be a brighter economic picture and room for the essential equipment that we’ve jettisoned today. Its depressing, but you knew it was coming. I shudder to think what would have been cut had the Treasury actually got it all its own way. We are waking up to the reality that in Western Europe, defence isn’t a vote winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4rvillan Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Cameron and Osbournes incompetence. What a load of horse shit! Who put us in this mess in the first place? At the end of the day, our economic position is like one big shit sandwich and everyone is going to have to take a bite. IMO. the Harrier is a 50 year old plane and although it does a fantastic job, it is near to being replaced anyway because of certain restrictions i.e. not being capable of supersonic speed. If these are scrapped, then why do we need the Ark Royal (originally designed as a through deck cruiser not an aircraft carrier)? OK, it takes away our ability to apply fast jets from the sea but if my knowledge is correct, in every conflict since the Falklands, we have been able to apply ground attack aircraft from land bases. I agree that is sad that the navy are no where near as strong as they were in the past but in a few years, they will be getting their pride back in the form of having 2 of the largest carriers in europe. It also makes sense to have one of these changed to carry other fixed wing attack aircraft other than VTOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Am I reading this correctly? Are we actually going to follow the completely moronic policy of the MN and have just one carrier? Meaning that for at least three months of the year, we’ll have no carriers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 19, 2010 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2010 Love to know where all these jobs in the private sector are going to come from to pick up this slack. Very, very dark months running into years ahead. Haven't you heard? All these jobs are going to come from all these new start up businesses that there going to support, you know the ones that can't actually borrow any money because the banks won't lend it because there too busy making record profits. Meanwhile as they get rich the country suffers, oh but its ok because 'we are in this together', I think they actually believe if they say that enough we will believe them. Record unemployment here we come..... Cuts are far too savage far too quick. Many people are going to pay a heavy price for Cameron and Osbournes incompetence. Indeed but people were saying that before the election only people opted not to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 19, 2010 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2010 Cameron and Osbournes incompetence. What a load of horse shit! Who put us in this mess in the first place? A combination of the international banks and Labour rather obviously but I fail to see what that has to do with the rights or wrongs of the current government and their attempts to put things right. It doesn't automatically follow that because Labour were in charge when things went wrong that the Tories are automatically the right people to correct things. Everyone knows cuts were needed but what is happening at the moment appears to many to be counter productive, excessive, ill thought through, in some cases ideologically based and harmful to the economic recovery of the country not to mention as of today our military capability. Even if you think the previous government incompetent it doesn't mean Cameron and the idiotic Osbourne are any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4rvillan Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 I'm not saying that they are automatically right Trent, I just think it is too early to call people incompetent when they are trying to right the wrongs of a previous incompetent government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 19, 2010 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2010 I'm not saying that they are automatically right Trent, I just think it is too early to call people incompetent when they are trying to right the wrongs of a previous incompetent government. The wrongs of the previous government (and there were plenty) have nothing to do with ability of those trying to put things right or their suitability to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Everyone knows cuts were needed but what is happening at the moment appears to many to be counter productive, excessive, ill thought through, in some cases ideologically based and harmful to the economic recovery of the country not to mention as of today our military capability. I find it rich for you as a Labour supporter to be de-crying what the Government has done with regards to Defence considering the previous thirteen years of administration. What has happened today is the inevitable result of nearly twenty years of poor management and poor spending by successive Governments and largely due to the Treasury and it not having the first clue about Defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Am I reading this correctly? Are we actually going to follow the completely moronic policy of the MN and have just one carrier? Meaning that for at least three months of the year, we’ll have no carriers? No no. When PoW is in refit we'll have the MN carrier in support - welcome to the Euro armed forces me old mukka! It's a good job that we and France have been such consistent allies and never disagree over the use of force.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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