chrisp65 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 did this thread get an overnight clean up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Why, when discussing the subject, is it acceptable to drop the 'income' bit?The raising of the threshold may well take x number of people out of paying income tax but they'll still be paying VAT, council tax, duty on alcohol and tabs (if consumed), duty on petrol, VED (possibly) and so on.Interesting to see a Labour idea being circulated today. A sliding scale of benefits depending on how much you've paid in. That is, somebody that's put 35 years in will get more benefits than a 23 year old or a bloke that's never really been that arsed about working. Feels logical on first hearing, but as ever, i'm sure the devil will be in the detail and the implementation and all that.On the face of it, sounds sensible until you think through the two likely possibilities: either an increase in the average working age benefit rate (politically unpopular) or maintaining the current average (which would require a reduction at the bottom end of the scale). Those under the age of 25 already get a lower rate, don't they? And aren't they already eligible for less housing benefit if single (isn't that up to 35)?I suppose the Labour party think differently if they're trying to tie it in to a policy of full employment. Frankly, though, I can't for the life of me see how full employment is going to be achieved without drastically changing the nature of the economy in the west and they won't be touting doing that, that's for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 well said Snowy. I'm afraid that the rhetoric that is being used by the Tory party especially in relation to the so called removal of tax for so many ignores the impacts that the poorer in society have suffered under this Gvmt. The richer are massively better off - which makes complete bollox of that old "we are all in this together" rubbish - while those at the lower end of the wealth "ladder" are still being hit and the impact as % of their incomes etc is far more than any political figure in the Gvmt are bleating about. In respect to the Labour proposals then they need serious consideration and examination as a serious alternative to what is in place at the moment and what direction that this Gvmt are taking us down, which in the long term will benefit only those who are "fortunate" enough to have money Going back to Tax quite a few of single parent (working) families will be significantly worse off - I wonder how the caring sharing Gvmt can explain that ? Also don't forget that many more will now be paying 40% tax rate - and typically that is the income group that sustains a lot of general day to day trade in the high street and associated online etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Grud lists the changes Income tax The rules around personal allowances – the amount individuals can earn each year before paying tax – are changing as the government phases out age-related allowances, the so-called "granny tax" announced in 2012's budget: • The personal allowance for under-65s increases from £8,105 to £9,440 • The personal allowance for 65-74-year-olds is frozen for the first time at £10,500 • The personal allowance for those aged 75 and over is frozen for the first time at £10,660 • Anyone who turns 65 after 5 April 2013 will never receive an age-related allowance – theirs will be £9,440 in 2013/14 • Married couple's allowances and blind person's allowances are not frozen Income tax rates and thresholds • The amount you need to earn before becoming a 40% taxpayer falls to £41,450 from £42,475 • The tax rate for additional rate payers, charged on earnings above £150,000, is cut from 50p to 45p • The amount of tax additional rate payers pay on dividend income is also cut, to 37.5% from 42.5% Benefits and tax credits Most state benefits are rising by just 1%, while some are frozen. Pensions will increase by more. • Child benefit is frozen at £20.30 a week for the first child and £13.40 a week for each subsequent child • Maternity and paternity pay rises to £136.78 a week from £135.45 • Job seeker's allowance rises by 1% (or 70p) to £71.70 a week • The full basic state pension rises by 2.5% to £110.15 a week • The minimum income guaranteed by the pension credit goes up to £145.40 from £142.70 Tax credits • The basic element of working tax credit is frozen for the third year running at £1,920 a year • The family element of child tax credit is also frozen at £545 a year • The child element rises by £30 a year to £2,690 Council tax The government tried to encourage councils to freeze council tax, offering incentives to those who did so. Despite this, a third of councils in England will increase council tax bills. • The average band D council tax bill goes up to £1,456 from £1,444 Capital gains tax (CGT) Every year you can make a set amount of profit on the sale of certain assets without paying tax. Above this you pay either 18% or 28% in CGT, depending on your total taxable income. • The CGT threshold rises from £10,600 to £10,900 Inheritance tax (IHT) When someone dies there is a 40% tax bill to pay on any value of their estate which goes above the IHT threshold, unless they leave everything to their spouse. • The IHT threshold is frozen at £325,000 for the third year running and will remain there until April 2018 • The threshold for married couples is £650,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 did this thread get an overnight clean up?Think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 did this thread get an overnight clean up? Think so. It has, hopefully some warning points given too. Pretty amusing when the post that started it off was completely wrong in every accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Don't often agree with you ajax, but what was said about you was bang out of order 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher Why ? He wouldn't be the first politican to shamelessly use tragic events for political purposes , surely you all remember the shadow Home Secretary who came out and cited the James Bulgar killing as evidence of the failings of Thatchers Britain .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Edit. Pointless really no opinions will be changed, ever. Edited April 8, 2013 by Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher Why ? He wouldn't be the first politican to shamelessly use tragic events for political purposes , surely you all remember the shadow Home Secretary who came out and cited the James Bulgar killing as evidence of the failings of Thatchers Britain .. Nobody should try to make political capital out of these tragic events. It makes me really sad/angry. It's really very immoral. The fact that Gid is using this horrendous event to push his 'anti welfare state' agenda and is claiming that this event somehow proves the welfare state is 'breeding' these kind of awful people is truly sickening. And he's doing it whilst looking down from his Ivory tower, on the minions, some of whom will be taken in by this spiel and the years of various media perpetuating the theory that 'everyone on welfare is an idle scrounger'. It is so wrong. Yes, there are 1 or 2 issues to be addressed. But let's not use this horrendous individual to prove the welfare state is broken. It's nonsense. Are Doctor's all evil folllowing Shipman? Childminders all evil following Beverly Allitt? But Gid now claims 'the people agree with me' (or some such nonsense). Gid, the man of the people. Edited April 8, 2013 by Jon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher Jon - a reality of what this Tory Gvmt have imposed on the people will soon start to hit home and that in turn will cause a lot of resentment, and possibly ultimately civil disobedience in various forms. The BS and lies I expect and have seen from the Tories over this, that is what they do (and I am sure you can attribute that to all political figures at all levels whatever the party). There are many who have not yet seen how this whole "we are all in this together" mentality really works and who exactly will pay for the extra thousands that the richer are now the proud owners of. There is and will be more a lot of anger, justifiable anger because this is people's lives they are screwing with, and they seemingly have no conscience about doing that. The Tory principles are based on that, we saw it with Thatcher before, what is more annoying and ultimately dangerous for the UK is that now this lot are more vindictive if that was possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher Why ? He wouldn't be the first politican to shamelessly use tragic events for political purposes , surely you all remember the shadow Home Secretary who came out and cited the James Bulgar killing as evidence of the failings of Thatchers Britain .. Nobody should try to make political capital out of these tragic events. It makes me really sad/angry. It's really very immoral. The fact that Gid is using this horrendous event to push his 'anti welfare state' agenda and is claiming that this event somehow proves the welfare state is 'breeding' these kind of awful people is truly sickening. And he's doing it whilst looking down from his Ivory tower, on the minions, some of whom will be taken in by this spiel and the years of various media perpetuating the theory that 'everyone on welfare is an idle scrounger'. It is so wrong. Yes, there are 1 or 2 issues to be addressed. But let's not use this horrendous individual to prove the welfare state is broken. It's nonsense. Are Doctor's all evil folllowing Shipman? Childminders all evil following Beverly Allitt? But Gid now claims 'the people agree with me' (or some such nonsense). Gid, the man of the people. That new working class accent is working wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher . There is and will be more a lot of anger, justifiable anger because this is people's lives they are screwing with, and they seemingly have no conscience about doing that. The Tory principles are based on that, we saw it with Thatcher before, what is more annoying and ultimately dangerous for the UK is that now this lot are more vindictive if that was possible Seems it IS possible Ian! The worry is that they have tried to do it more subversively. It's been an insidious assualt on the poor and the dependant, the 'lower economic strata' of society. Soom the veneer of 'we're all in this tognether' will wash off for everyone, and then there could well be societal 'problems', if they are not out on their ears by then. Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher Jon - a reality of what this Tory Gvmt have imposed on the people will soon start to hit home and that in turn will cause a lot of resentment, and possibly ultimately civil disobedience in various forms. The BS and lies I expect and have seen from the Tories over this, that is what they do (and I am sure you can attribute that to all political figures at all levels whatever the party). There are many who have not yet seen how this whole "we are all in this together" mentality really works and who exactly will pay for the extra thousands that the richer are now the proud owners of. There is and will be more a lot of anger, justifiable anger because this is people's lives they are screwing with, and they seemingly have no conscience about doing that. The Tory principles are based on that, we saw it with Thatcher before, what is more annoying and ultimately dangerous for the UK is that now this lot are more vindictive if that was possible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Admittedly not knowing the full ins and outs of tax can someone explain this to me please?These so called millionaire tax cuts...People who earn more money i.e millionaires, pay more tax because the more you earn the more you pay, correct?Even with this cut for high earners, they are still paying more than most of us and still paying more for earning more, correct?Does this tax cut not have the incentive for other rich people to live in this country, in the end providing more money in tax as there will be more higher earners than before, resulting in more tax for the government/country?Is this right or am i getting the wrong end of the stick?Also are these benefit cuts not just to stop piss takers, but nobody wants to see that in the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Admittedly not knowing the full ins and outs of tax can someone explain this to me please? These so called millionaire tax cuts... People who earn more money i.e millionaires, pay more tax because the more you earn the more you pay, correct? Even with this cut for high earners, they are still paying more than most of us and still paying more for earning more, correct? Does this tax cut not have the incentive for other rich people to live in this country, in the end providing more money in tax as there will be more higher earners than before, resulting in more tax for the government/country? Is this right or am i getting the wrong end of the stick? Also are these benefit cuts not just to stop piss takers, but nobody wants to see that in the media? apparently in VT world it doesn't work like that ... Not that outisde of football and Celebs many people actually earn £1m a year and why the millionaire tax phrase is just wrong but assuming one did 20% on the first £41,450 = £8,290 40% on £41,450-£150,000 = £43,420 and 45% on the remaining £850,000 = £382,500 That's a total of £434,210 but that isn't deemed to be fair by some and they want more from them and to give it to the poorer in society , whoever that may be ... but £1m a year is the exception rather than the rule , probably footballers , celebs etc Someone like Milliband earns £139k as leader of the opposition , Cameron around £145k that puts them in the top 1% of earners in the UK , but just below the 45% tax thresholds ... I'm not sure if Jon and Drat are suggesting we hammer them , or just hammer Tories that have big houses ?? Snowy has argued ( i think) it shouldn't come down to incomes as the poor still pay 20% VAT etc , the £100k income family lose their child benefit money etc etc ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Is it wrong that i feel a massive compulsion to kill gideon osbourne? Such a rocket polisher Why ? He wouldn't be the first politican to shamelessly use tragic events for political purposes , surely you all remember the shadow Home Secretary who came out and cited the James Bulgar killing as evidence of the failings of Thatchers Britain .. >> Why ? He wouldn't be the first politican to shamelessly use tragic events for political purposes , surely you all remember the shadow Home Secretary who came out and cited the James Bulgar killing as evidence of the failings of Thatchers Britain .. Nobody should try to make political capital out of these tragic events. It makes me really sad/angry. It's really very immoral. The fact that Gid is using this horrendous event to push his 'anti welfare state' agenda and is claiming that this event somehow proves the welfare state is 'breeding' these kind of awful people is truly sickening. And he's doing it whilst looking down from his Ivory tower, on the minions, some of whom will be taken in by this spiel and the years of various media perpetuating the theory that 'everyone on welfare is an idle scrounger'. It is so wrong. Yes, there are 1 or 2 issues to be addressed. But let's not use this horrendous individual to prove the welfare state is broken. It's nonsense. Are Doctor's all evil folllowing Shipman? Childminders all evil following Beverly Allitt? But Gid now claims 'the people agree with me' (or some such nonsense). Gid, the man of the people. perhaps to represent balance we should have a full list of people you wish to kill rather than just single out one individual !! .. for example I assume Blair is on list of people you want to kill for his immoral exploitation of the Bulgar case ? without the full list you just look like someone with an unhealthy fixation on Osborne Edited April 8, 2013 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 without going into a lot of quoting, but thinking about what Tony wrote. If at 45% they pay £382,000. So at 50% they would pay £425,000. That's an extra £43,000. So where's this extra £100,000 tax break figure come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Or Jo Moore? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Or Jo Moore? Don't mention that until a bad news day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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