Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Richard]

Oh dear oh dear

How will these cuts benefit me? What will I get out of this?

So all this debt is the fault of the public sector, the unemployed, and other recievers of benefits? Right, got you now.

Its a doctrine that has been at the core of the Tory - and now ConDem - thinking for many years and still exists. There are many things abhorrent about it but in a self self self society that the Tory party believed in

But to answer your question about what is in it for you how about these things;

1. It may help to avoid this country becomming bankrupt, and thus peple may still want to invest in us.

2. It may help to ensure that we do not spend more on debt interest than we do on, say, the education budget. Now wouldn't that be a thing that we spend money on services and our society rather than debt interest.

3. It may just ensure that longer term our standard of living is maintained and that we do not have rampant inflation and interest rates at an unaffordable level.

4. It may just mean that at some point we could return more of the money you earn (if of course you do earn money) to your pocket to spend as you wish and bosst the economy.

5. It may very well mean that our pensions would at least retain their current value , meaning that the issues we have with an aging population can be mitigated a little , as the market does not crash due to the financial instability of this country.

6. It may also mean that the public services that you receive could be delivered in a more efficient and better manner than they being currently, thus you get a better service.

Quite frankly how anyone could imagine that we as a country can just ignore this debt and carry on merrily, well that's the abhorrent thing.

[Clarry]

So all this debt is the fault of the public sector, the unemployed, and other recievers of benefits? Right, got you now

Has anybody actually said that and can you point me to it?

Not any VT'ers, but these seem to be the people the media are pointing at. A bit of a red herring really.

So no VTers, no politicians, just the media?

The politicians are quite happy to see these people scapegoated when it comes to paying for the failings of people earning what the the great unwashed can only dream of with a winning lottery ticket.

[Clarry]

6. It may also mean that the public services that you receive could be delivered in a more efficient and better manner than they being currently, thus you get a better service.

Quite frankly how anyone could imagine that we as a country can just ignore this debt and carry on merrily, well that's the abhorrent thing.

I can't disagree with what your saying in all your points. But in point 6) a lot of people see "efficient" as cheaper. That's my worry. chop cash from services that need it; and I don't mean jobs/wages, but money going directly to special needs in education, for instance.

Something has to be done about the debt but it never seems to be top-down, but bottom-up.

[avfc89]

Tories and Lib Dems are making the decisions they are to blame for the next few years.

Coming from a Labour supporter, that comment is a lot like an arsonist who has just set fire to his home complaining about the size of the fire brigade's hose when they show out to put out the blaze.

Goverments across Europe are having to make deep and painful cuts to reduce their deficits and prevent the weight of sovereign debts dragging their economies under. That the scale of Britain's problem outstrips that even of Greece is without doubt the legacy of the Brown years.

The idea that there is any alternatve to this and that our problems are merely figures on a piece of paper is naive in the extreme. We have two choices, make the required cuts and get the situation under control, or don't and continue on the previous government's route into a death spiral.

I watched Andy Burnham talking about this as part of his ongoing leadership pitch and like the others he is pedalling the line that cuts do need to happen, yet refusing point blank to identify where those cuts should come. I don't blame him, if he didn't say that he would be endorsing the path the coalition have taken, but the G20 have recently validated this government's approach by recommending the same measures.

It's going to be rough but there is no one to blame but the previous government. Trying to blame those who have inherited this mess is simply a rejection of reality.

How will these cuts benefit me? What will I get out of this? It's just another form of suppression and putting the pressure on the people at the bottom as usual. Overall, It IS a figure on a piece of paper, money is a man made invention if we get to the root of it.

They say the future will be better! When will this future arrive? It won't, it's simply "spin". And, as I've said before, monetarism is not a sure way of helping the Economy.

So whats you alternative?

Spend, spend, spend....

[Richard]

Well Clarry, and avfc89 and in fact anyone who has a better idea will get their chance now to say what should be done

Link

Ministers are to give details about a "once-in-a-generation" re-examination of the way the government works, as it prepares to make "painful" cuts.

The Treasury is to ask for the public's views on which functions the government should perform and which could be done by other bodies to save money.

A "star chamber" of senior figures will be created, before which ministers will have to justify their spending.

The PM has warned of unavoidable cuts ahead as he tackles the budget deficit.

David Cameron said on Monday the country must prepare itself for painful and unavoidable cuts which will affect "our whole way of life".

The Conservative-Lib Dem coalition government has already outlined plans for £6.2bn of cuts this financial year and is preparing for the Budget on 22 June and a departmental spending review in the autumn.

Labour says the government is wrong to focus on cuts not growth.

Chancellor George Osborne is expected to outline the "framework" for future spending decisions at Treasury questions in the House of Commons later, and will also take part in a debate in Parliament on the economy.

BBC political editor Nick Robinson said the Treasury would be publishing a document inviting the public, business groups, trade unions and think tanks to join a debate designed to produce a "fundamental re-evaluation of the role of government".

In an idea copied from Canada's successful deficit-cutting strategy from the 1990s, it will ask people to discuss whether the government needs to provide certain public services at all, or whether other organisations, such as councils, voluntary groups or companies, could do so more cheaply.

Mr Osborne is to create a special committee - or star chamber - of senior ministers and "the best and the brightest civil servants" who will aim to challenge rather than defend existing Whitehall spending patterns.

WHAT IS A STAR CHAMBER?

* The term is used now for an ad hoc group of people given power to rule for or against things - in this case spending

* The term was also used last year to describe the panels parties set up to review their MPs' expenses claims

* The name comes from the room in the old Palace of Westminster in which medieval King's Council met

* The Star Chamber tribunal of privy councillors and judges was a court of law from 1485 until 1641

* It oversaw operation of lower courts and heard direct appeals mostly about property disputes, corruption and public disorder

* Heard cases in private and had freedom to decide on punishments ranging from fines to mutilation.

Ministers could be asked to consider whether services currently provided by their departments could be better supplied by the private or voluntary sectors.

They could be questioned about their methods of delivery and challenged to find ways of "doing more for less".

Any minister who agrees to make cuts in his department's spending will be invited to sit on the committee and give his or her verdict on their colleagues' spending plans.

A Treasury official said: "Anyone who thinks the spending review is just about saving money is missing the point.

"This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to transform the way that government works."

Mr Cameron said on Monday that the state of the public finances was "even worse than we thought", suggesting the UK would be paying £70bn in debt interest within five years - more than it spent on schools in England, tackling climate change and transport.

'Chilling attack'

Without prompt action, he said, taxes would increasingly be used to pay debt interest rather than being spent on public services.

He has called for a "proper debate" involving as many people as possible about future spending choices and has pledged not to cut the deficit "in a way that hurts those we most need to help" or "that divides the country".

Labour have accused the Conservatives of exaggerating the scale of what they have found since coming to power in order to soften up the public for future spending cuts.

Shadow Chancellor Alastair Darling said it was thanks to Labour's actions that the government had inherited a growing economy, and the proposal for immediate cuts risked the prospect of recovery.

Unions, meanwhile, have warned of a "chilling attack" on the public sector and said the financial sector must make more of a contribution to reducing record levels of borrowing, having been responsible for the recession.

[Richard]

Spend, spend, spend....

Shameful and really highlights the socialist failings

As your former chief secretary to the treasury so eloquently put it upon being thrown out "The money has all gone"

[kidlewis]

spend spend spend is the exact mentality of this idiot

he is now broke and wanting his binman job back.

[Richard]

I can see your mistake there. Let me fix it for you

spend spend spend is the exact mentality of this idiot

he is now broke and wanting his binman job back.

There you go

[drat01]

So Gideon is now not content with blaming Labour, the old Lib Dem's but he also wants to blame the UK people. Asking the people where to make cuts, interesting considering the comments from AWOL earlier about Burnham.

The ConDem's are taking another title, that of the Teflon party where none of their actions will be attributable to them. How convenient.

But in point 6) a lot of people see "efficient" as cheaper.

That is the major problem that the UK and the world has when the bean counters start running the show. There is an old adage about having to spend a bit to gain a lot. It seems that some favour the more favourable to the rich and the elite of "take a lot and **** the rest".

The last few days again we have seen the bollox from Cameron, Clegg and Gideon about cost savings and then seen their hypocrisy. Maybe it's a politicians trait , 'cos at the end of the day they are all tarred by the same brush it seems

[drat01]

Goverments across Europe are having to make deep and painful cuts to reduce their deficits and prevent the weight of sovereign debts dragging their economies under. That the scale of Britain's problem outstrips that even of Greece is without doubt the legacy of the Brown years.

A typical contradiction there AWOL. So on one hand Europe (and the world) has problems and then in the same sentence the problems are due to Brown. The ConDem's have seemingly no idea how to react. How Ironic

[drat01]

It's going to be rough but there is no one to blame but the previous government. Trying to blame those who have inherited this mess is simply a rejection of reality.

Goverments across Europe are having to make deep and painful cuts to reduce their deficits and prevent the weight of sovereign debts dragging their economies under.

From the same post AWOL

[Clarry]

Well Clarry, and avfc89 and in fact anyone who has a better idea will get their chance now to say what should be done

Link

I fimly expect the great British public to want to take it from the scapegoats.

In reality it has to come from all of us, and i would start with banks having the choice a) start paying back from your profits now, or release funds from your profits to support small businesses etc.

[drat01]

What about Tax avoidance Clarry?

[Richard]

So Gideon is now not content with blaming Labour, the old Lib Dem's but he also wants to blame the UK people. Asking the people where to make cuts, interesting considering the comments from AWOL earlier about Burnham.

How exactly is consulting with the public as to where we could make savings blaming them? It seems to me that it is actually an open way of doing it and showing that the government is listening and not just doing what they want.

The ConDem's are taking another title, that of the Teflon party where none of their actions will be attributable to them. How convenient.

Convenient? Again not sure what you wan here? Maybe it is that the government should fail and the country doesn't get out of the mess that Labour put us into.

Just to be clear I think the government will be accountable for all decisions it makes, it is consulting with the public to get the big ideas to chose from, is my understanding.

That is the major problem that the UK and the world has when the bean counters start running the show. There is an old adage about having to spend a bit to gain a lot. It seems that some favour the more favourable to the rich and the elite of "take a lot and **** the rest".

Not sure where to start on this paragraph, nice to see your continual use of the bean counters phrase though in some sought of attempt to have a dig at the accountants on this site. Coincidence? Think not. Nevermind it is very petty.

As to spend a bit to gain a lot, I guess that is what got us here in the first place spend a bit and got a lot of debt. As to how we spend now, well that's a bit difficult when "the money has all gone" (quote from a former Liebour Chief Secretary) .

Not entirely sure where the evidence is of being favourable to the rich and elite and would be nice to know who said the "take a lot and **** the rest" quote that you have put in speech marks there.

The last few days again we have seen the bollox from Cameron, Clegg and Gideon about cost savings and then seen their hypocrisy. Maybe it's a politicians trait , 'cos at the end of the day they are all tarred by the same brush it seems

:yawn: epic fail.

[Clarry]

What about Tax avoidance Clarry?

I'd come down on it with an iron fist.

[Richard]

It's going to be rough but there is no one to blame but the previous government. Trying to blame those who have inherited this mess is simply a rejection of reality.

Goverments across Europe are having to make deep and painful cuts to reduce their deficits and prevent the weight of sovereign debts dragging their economies under.

From the same post AWOL

With a very convenient missing of the sentence "That the scale of Britain's problem outstrips that even of Greece is without doubt the legacy of the Brown years. " and so misquoting the original post.

Pretty straightforward to me. Yes we are in trouble, yes many countries face issues but we are in a worse state than most due to the last Liebour government.

[kidlewis]

It's going to be rough but there is no one to blame but the previous government. Trying to blame those who have inherited this mess is simply a rejection of reality.

Goverments across Europe are having to make deep and painful cuts to reduce their deficits and prevent the weight of sovereign debts dragging their economies under.

From the same post AWOL

With a very convenient missing of the sentence "That the scale of Britain's problem outstrips that even of Greece is without doubt the legacy of the Brown years. " and so misquoting the original post.

Pretty straightforward to me. Yes we are in trouble, yes many countries face issues but we are in a worse state than most due to the last Liebour government.

yes that is exactly the case.

We could have been in a better position given the growth we had over the past decade, but we aren't. Why is that? it's not just down to the global crisis is it.

[Richard]

See the issue about consultation on the savings to be made is key for me.

People call for a new politics, for no punch and judy for working together to resolve the difficulties of the nation (whatever happened to the anti conservative alliance again) and then when the government do just that and ask the public their opinion they are damned.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Awol]

Goverments across Europe are having to make deep and painful cuts to reduce their deficits and prevent the weight of sovereign debts dragging their economies under. That the scale of Britain's problem outstrips that even of Greece is without doubt the legacy of the Brown years.

A typical contradiction there AWOL. So on one hand Europe (and the world) has problems and then in the same sentence the problems are due to Brown.

No contradiction, DRAT. Yes the majority of the developed world has debt issues and ours are much worse due to Brown and his financial incontinence. That's just the simple truth and everyone but Labour's professional propagandists know it's the truth.

The ConDem's have seemingly no idea how to react. How Ironic

I predict the equivalent of 20% cuts across all departments. Services will suffer and it will hurt but there is no alternative if we wish to remain solvent as a country.

Spend spend spend

Okay, spend what?

]Asking the people where to make cuts, interesting considering the comments from AWOL earlier about Burnham.

I think they already know roughly what they are going to cut but are trying to takepeople with them by involving them directly. If the public react by stating in large numbers that certain areas should be protected they may well tailor their policies to suit that where possible. Again, the fact is Labour spent everything and more so the pain to come now is unavoidable.

[Risso]

Global banking crisis plus incompetent, bumbling fool completely out of his depth = trillion squid worth of debt and the worst economic crisis in Europe.