CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Cameron wants the Greens, SNP & Plaid Cymru to split the left and take traditional Labour votes. The debates have 5 'left' parties and 2 on the right. Tories will be chuffed with the debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockingbird_franklin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Cameron wants the Greens, SNP & Plaid Cymru to split the left and take traditional Labour votes. The debates have 5 'left' parties and 2 on the right. Tories will be chuffed with the debates. 2 on the right i assume are, Labour and The Tories, no way am i accepting UKIP as a left of centre party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 They should put (the idea of) leader debates on a raft, set it sail from the Scillies and hope it makes its way home.Just someone stop this shit, please. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Never watched the last leaders debates.And wont watch these if they happen. Dreadful American style political showmanship. Simply an extension of the charade that is PMQ's Planted questions, slogans and soundbites. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Never watched the last leaders debates.And wont watch these if they happen. Dreadful American style political showmanship. Simply an extension of the charade that is PMQ's Planted questions, slogans and soundbites. I guess if we elected a PM directly then they would make more sense , but Cameron having a blinder on the debates ( for example ) isn't going to convince a labour voter sitting at home to go change his vote to Tory , anymore than Ed promising to give everyone £500 is going to have my Tory stronghold town rushing to bring in the local labour candidate I'll probably watch them all the same ... Though I'd rather watch Balls v Osborne as I reckon that one could get dirty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 25, 2015 Author Moderator Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'd rather watch Balls Always had my suspicions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I wonder how many people in the UK would happily vote for an all encompassing coalition / hung parliament that all agreed to just freeze everything where it is and govern for 5 years without change. No tweeks to GCSE's No tweeks to university fees No reform of the NHS No change to benefits No new idea on any major item Just wherever we are, for good or bad, no tinkering just let it run. During that period we could get auditors to work out the costs and benefits of all the 'changes' of the last 10 or 20 years. I suspect that all changes to schools and hospitals and what not have cost billions and had no clear positive or negative affect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 No reform to the NHS ... You mean let Labours privatision of it see it through to a conclusion ? I get the theory but we are fast approaching 5 years of Lambert and thus the need for change is showing its self the clear winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 25, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 25, 2015 I wonder how many people in the UK would happily vote for an all encompassing coalition / hung parliament that all agreed to just freeze everything where it is and govern for 5 years without change. No tweeks to GCSE's No tweeks to university fees No reform of the NHS No change to benefits No new idea on any major item Just wherever we are, for good or bad, no tinkering just let it run. During that period we could get auditors to work out the costs and benefits of all the 'changes' of the last 10 or 20 years. I suspect that all changes to schools and hospitals and what not have cost billions and had no clear positive or negative affect. The trouble with that, as wise as it seems in some respects, is the world and country changes continually. A fair bit of what Gov'ts do is reactive. Sure the current state of whatever sector is partly down to ideology and political dogma from various gov'ts of the present and past, but the other part isn't. Unfortunately Gov'ts don't put policies into place based on evidence and study, they do it based on gut feelings and prejudices, mostly. Then there's the influence of donors and big business, and what parties think will go down well in the short term. So if you take 3 areas as examples - education, defence and NHS, then leaving them as they are won't work Education - it's already clear that the free schools thing has been a failure and a mess. There's not so many of them, yet they are being closed because of racism, corruption, bigotry, religious intolerance and all kinds of reasons - you can't just leave them, and leave new ones to be made under the existing policy. Defence - The world is not exactly a nice peaceful stable place, what with Russians and Palestine and Israel and the bonkers religionists. NHS - What's been done (no top down reorganisation of the NHS, was the promise) is the opposite of what was promised, and it's failed, horribly and things are getting worse. It has to be sorted. Then there's banking, the environment, transport, immigration and so on.... All these things have been arsed up by the loathesome swine in power now (and previously, to an extent), and surely leaving things to just carry on is negligent and harmful? It might be like an oil tanker where it takes a long time to turn round, but you've got to try, not just carry on heading for the rocks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 So if Labour or a different non tory coalition get in we'll have a demonstrable better health service and education system and better anticipation of what's needed in defence? Something tells me that wouldn't be the case. Something tells me they would have marginally different ideas, touted as radical, but of equally poor foundation and be equally poorly executed and show up a different part of the whole plan where its now worse due to an unforeseen circumstance of their tinkering. Obviously, if in 5 years time things are better and fairer then I'll be totally chuffed to have been proved wrong. I see the point about the need to react to world events, I don't see much evidence of this having been done successfully under the current system. We're always preparing for the previous war, be that in health, education, or literally in the case of defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 25, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well, I like to think so, Chris. My perception is that since the current lot got in those areas have all got worse, basically, so carrying on in the same way will lead to further deterioration. There's obviously no guarantee that some or all of them would definitely get better under a different, less terrible gov't, but I suspect they would improve. I agree that there's no a massive difference in the policies of Labour and Tories, but there is genuine difference. And more so still to the SNP and Greens and so on. UKIPs party are just scattergun clueless idiots on all but one or two areas where (I don't agree with them) they have a clear belief in what they think is needed. In the rest they have apparently no cohesive idea what their policy is, or why. I just thin the current Gov't are terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They mess everything up. They get everything wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Surely during austerity, things aren't going to get better. That's just inevitable, and I can't see either party spending massive amounts of money in the next government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) My perception is that since the current lot got in those areas have all got worse, basically, so carrying on in the same way will lead to further deterioration. depends on your measuring stick and what political colour it is though surely ? and what the alternatives are and their impacts ( Greece economy v UK economy for example) University fees aren't a bad idea in themselves .. stops a lot of pointless degrees and may move us away from this notion that you need a degree to be able to do a job .. Education - has it demonstrably got worse ? Ofsted have said the proportion of schools rated by Ofsted as good or outstanding had risen from 68% to 81% since August 2010 .. yeah some areas like the Free schools don't' appear to have worked ... but the expansion of free schools was being by parental demand not by politicians as I understood it .. of course if you only focused on the negative ones as you did then of course you'd say it was a failure ... but who isn't to say 10 , 20 years time they wont be seen as a success NHS - Labour made a big thing under their watch about targets .. by and large they met those targets ..BUT at a neglect to non-targeted areas .. anyhow Targets were met in Jan 2015 , ( probably the first time since 210 that they have been ) due to a drop in demand after people heeded the advise about non essential attendance at A&E ... ignoring the rights and wrongs of that advice , it shows that the NHS can cope when demand is at a certain level .. so have the Tories made it worse , or has demand just got higher ( immigration issues , underlying health issues etc ?) Defence they've clearly messed up on and you wont see any arguments from me there so Chris'ssss idea isn't necessarily a bad one .. changing government in 2015 and scrapping Free schools just for the sake of it may not be the solution ... exploring that potentially it was a good idea and tweaking it with cross party support , could just see it work ..taxing the London house market on ideological grounds just to fund more in-efficiencies in the NHS clearly won't work ... working the system we currently have with cross party support , may just get us somewhere ... Edited January 25, 2015 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted January 25, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just thin the current Gov't are terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They mess everything up. They get everything wrong. You've pretty much just written this governments obituary ready for May 8th. "They were terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They messed everything up. They got everything wrong." 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just thin the current Gov't are terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They mess everything up. They get everything wrong. You've pretty much just written this governments obituary ready for May 8th. "They were terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They messed everything up. They got everything wrong." Well if nothing else they got Brown out so for that we are all internally greatful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 are any of the parties promising to scrap HS2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 are any of the parties promising to scrap HS2? Greens and UKIP ... Ed will presumably change once he finds out if there are votes in it or not 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) I just thin the current Gov't are terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They mess everything up. They get everything wrong. You've pretty much just written this governments obituary ready for May 8th. "They were terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They messed everything up. They got everything wrong." Well if nothing else they got Brown out so for that we are all internally greatful There was only one realistic worse outcome in the 2010 general election and that was a Tory government without the lib dems to ever so slightly keep them in check. Gordon Brown wasn't a very good PM and the chances are had he stayed in power he still wouldn't have been. However I am 100% convinced that he wouldn't have overseen the giving out of a double kicking to the poorest and most vulnerable in our society that this mob has dished out. They have been hit both in the pocket and by the destruction of the public services they more than most rely on. They have said it was done in the name of austerity and for the good of our economic future. The reality is it was done as it is simply what the Tories have always done and to put frankly anyone who supports that should hang their heads in shame as there should be no place for such vindictive ideologies in this country. Edited January 25, 2015 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just thin the current Gov't are terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They mess everything up. They get everything wrong. You've pretty much just written this governments obituary ready for May 8th. "They were terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They messed everything up. They got everything wrong." And presumably you'd like to replace them with a Labour government. Who the last time they were in, by any yardstick you choose to use, "messed everything up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just thin the current Gov't are terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They mess everything up. They get everything wrong. You've pretty much just written this governments obituary ready for May 8th. "They were terrible in their decision making, their execution of "plans" and in their intent. They messed everything up. They got everything wrong." And presumably you'd like to replace them with a Labour government. Who the last time they were in, by any yardstick you choose to use, "messed everything up". Presumably it wasn't vindictive though and thus one doesn't have to hang their head in shame ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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