Bolitics The New Condem Government

[snowychap]

I'd say it was more Hugo than Bob, wasn't it?

[LondonLax]

Don't see how we can take back and renationalise assets which would cost money, when we do not in fact have any money

Why would taking them back cost money? Simply take them back into public ownership, its where they belong anyway and don't compensate the shareholders as they shouldn't have been allowed to get the shares on the cheap by the Witch in the first place, the selling off of the Utilities and the railways was a terrible terrible error by the Witch, whoda think it it, the Witch selling off the national assets on the cheap, bit like selling the gold and telling everyone you were going to do it. Same horse different jockey

Have you been stealing ideas from Robert Mugabe?

What nationalised utility and railway companies? I think you'll find that one rather fashionable the world over, most countries view these essential services as infrastructure, essential to the fabric of the country, selling them off in the first place was the mistake

Yes but even Hugo Chavez pays a token amount when he does it

I don't think the govenment stealing back industries it sold previously would do a great deal for it's credability and future investment potential.

[LondonLax]

Actually I stand corrected, Chavez ordered the millitary to take over Venezeula's rice producion factories. I can't really see the British army storming the offices of national rail and ordering everyone out though

[bickster]

I don't think the govenment stealing back industries it sold previously would do a great deal for it's credability and future investment potential.

Like I'd care

and like it could get lower if you read this topic ;-)

[drat01]

Actually I stand corrected, Chavez ordered the millitary to take over Venezeula's rice producion factories. I can't really see the British army storming the offices of national rail and ordering everyone out though

They would have to wait in a long queue and then speak to the man behind the glass with the greasy hair and grubby shirt and explain that this was a super saver nationalisation which means that it can only return to the UK people after 9:30 and not on a BH weekend

[snowychap]

Tax - £400bn

Do you mean receipts? You're coming in a bit low, aren't you?

[Gringo]

Tax - £400bn

Do you mean receipts? You're coming in a bit low, aren't you?

As I posted - random figures - hadn't looked it up - but thought they were comparable. How far out was I?

[snowychap]

How far out was I?

It depends whether we believe Treasury figures or not. :winkold:

Estimate for 09/10 receipts (according to the budget) was 500 or so (400 was a good call for HMRC receipts) with expenditure as about 670.

So the 10%/10% would reduce the deficit from 170 odd down to just over 50.

Hey, don't worry - I know they were rough figures but your rough figures in the rough hands of others might become facts.

[Gringo]

asset sales

Selling off the silverware doesn't address the structural deficit.

Nationalisation

Railways: Operation. we don't have to renationalise, just wait for the franchies to expire.

Rolling Stock: Made some people very rich, owned by hedge funds and investment banks, could be a struggle

Other: Who owns all the land now?

Water: Who sold all the land?

Coal: Who sold all the land?

A lot of the valuable non-core assets have been stripped from the nationalised industries and flogged. Can't get them back. So even renationalising the operations only goes half way to restoring what once was. Privatising the profits, socialising the costs.

Next they'll be saying we should sell off RBS and LTSB cheaply to all those with a spare £20k in the bank they were thinking of putting into their ISA.

[snowychap]

Next they'll be saying we should sell off RBS and LTSB cheaply to all those with a spare £20k in the bank they were thinking of putting into their ISA.

or :cry:

[snowychap]

According to Chris Dillow, [paraphrase] any idiot can become Chancellor and any idiot has [/paraphrase].

p.s. 'We is open to bizniss, innit'.

[snowychap]

Now here's a thing that I really wasn't that aware of (I'm sure it must have come up at A level but I was probably in the pub at the time) - short money.

Sorry, Clegg et al, no go, pal. You shouldn't get it. Bad form.

[leviramsey]

Default: Become an economic pariah internationally, the City (still a massive revenue generator for the Exchequer) is damaged - perhaps fatally - and no one anywhere will lend us a bean in future.

How many times has Argentina defaulted and yet people continue to lend it money.

Indeed, one of the best lending philosophies is to lend to someone who's just completed defaulting (e.g. having just come out of bankruptcy) since it gives you the chance to be first in line (for a few years at least).

[Awol]

Default: Become an economic pariah internationally, the City (still a massive revenue generator for the Exchequer) is damaged - perhaps fatally - and no one anywhere will lend us a bean in future.

How many times has Argentina defaulted and yet people continue to lend it money.

How many people (excepting Hugo Chavez) consider Argentina to be anything but a tinpot basket case?

Hint: Don't invest, we're going to slap the bastards again soon..

[Awol]

Euro in danger: Germans trigger panic over future of single currency

Shocked European ministers are preparing for emergency talks to shore up the euro after markets fell in reaction to panic measures in Germany.

Angela Merkel stunned EU capitals by warning that the euro was in danger and triggered fears of a fresh financial meltdown by announcing a ban on risky trading practices by speculators. The German Chancellor’s actions opened up new cracks in the single currency, drawing sharp criticism from France and prompting Brussels to issue an appeal for unity.

Shares in London plunged by nearly 3 per cent, with similar falls in Paris, Berlin and Madrid. The euro plummeted to a new low against the dollar before making a slight recovery.

European finance ministers, who have just hammered out a massive rescue plan for Greece, will hear controversial calls from Germany at a meeting tomorrow for changes to the Lisbon treaty to give Brussels powers to co-ordinate national budgets.

Ms Merkel believes that the EU should have stronger powers to organise the “orderly insolvency” of countries such as Greece that set giveaway budgets with no means of paying for them. After announcing a ban on speculative share trading in Germany’s top financial institutions and the bonds of eurozone countries until next March, she warned: “This challenge is existential and we have to rise to it. The euro is in danger. If we don’t deal with this danger, then the consequences for us in Europe are incalculable . . . If the euro fails, then Europe fails.”

Her apocalyptic warning came as David Cameron prepared for his first visit as Prime Minister to Paris and Berlin, where he is likely to come under pressure to commit more British funds to EU bailout programmes.

His desire to build relations with Ms Merkel will be tempered by his reluctance to see any more powers transferred to Brussels. However, with 54 per cent of Britain’s exports going to Europe, the economy is not immune to the effects of the euro’s problems.

Ms Merkel may have intended her words to be a rallying cry to stop the crisis of confidence spreading from Greece to Portugal, Spain and Italy. But the markets were shaken because Germany is seen as the bedrock of the euro, which was introduced just ten years ago and now covers 16 countries.

Fears are growing at the highest level in the European Commission over the size of Italy’s national debt and its ability to cope if markets turn on it. Further turmoil is possible today as Asian investors prepare to dump huge amounts of euros on the market.

Wolfgang Schäuble, the German Finance Minister, called for an urgent rewriting of the eurozone rulebook. He told the Financial Times: “I’m convinced the markets are really out of control. That is why we need really effective regulation, in the sense of creating a properly functioning market mechanism.”

Mr Cameron will meet President Sarkozy of France tonight and Ms Merkel tomorrow. He will resist her demand to reopen the Lisbon treaty to beef up European Commission powers to scrutinise national budgets.

Herman Van Rompuy, the European Council President, called the finance ministers’ meeting in response to Ms Merkel’s demands for a treaty change. Michel Barnier, the EU Commissioner for Internal Markets and Financial Regulation, said: “It’s important that member states act together.”

Large type 1: Uh oh.... So the Lisbon Treaty CAN be renegotiated then? The Cons and Libs have both signed up to the 'referendum lock' and if the Treaty is reopened (despite the Tories claiming it was a fait accompli) then the people have to get a vote before there is any further transfer of power to Brussels. This would definitely be a big test for the Coailition government because they'd most likely be campaigning against each other.

Large type 2: Exactly what some bolitics posters have been saying for months. If Germany decides it can't carry the PIGS debt for them then the whole rotten thing will unravel very quickly. Interesting few months ahead I think, will they really risk letting the people decide?

[drat01]

It seems that Cameron IS the control freak. The 1922 cmtee a main part of the Tory party, he now basically wants to run

Not content with not getting a majority from the UK people and then changing parliamentary rules to avoid any sort of dissent, he wants to do likewise with his own party. I remember the phrase about "power corrupts" being thrown around by our Tory friends, it seems that Cameron has got drunk on power quicker than a 12 year old drinking their first can of special brew.

Add to that the total disregard for their manifesto, can we have a new election please because its obvious that this Cameron / Clegg clone is a Friday afternoon rogue one

[Gringo]

Large type 1: Uh oh.... So the Lisbon Treaty CAN be renegotiated then?

it has to be renegotiated / re-signed anyway to include all the provisions that were promised to the Irish govt in order to fix the second referendum and that still haven't been delivered.

Large type 2: Exactly what some bolitics posters have been saying for months. If Germany decides it can't carry the PIGS debt for them then the whole rotten thing will unravel very quickly. Interesting few months ahead I think, will they really risk letting the people decide?

According to the grauniad at the weekend, sarkozy threatened to pull france out of the euro if merkel didn't agree to the €750bn bailout

[tonyh29]

HIP's bite the dust today another of Liebours follies is no more

I'm liking this new government already , many positive steps in such a short time .. No ID cards , reform of Corporation tax ...

of course there will be some that wont be happy but the country is clearly in better hands than it has been for some time

[Gringo]

HIP's bite the dust today another of Liebours follies is no more

I'm liking this new government already , many positive steps in such a short time .. No ID cards , reform of Corporation tax ...

OK, I'll give you HIPs and ID cards, but how does the reform of corporation tax help?

[Awol]

can we have a new election please

Don't Labour need a leader first?

According to the grauniad at the weekend, sarkozy threatened to pull france out of the euro if merkel didn't agree to the €750bn bailout

Merkel should have called the little scrotum's bluff. The unmandated integration of Europe is a Franco/German enterprise, no way would the French say Adieu and piss off (more's the pity, it might be worth belonging to then).

Merkel is already massively weakened at home following this Greek tragedy, the German people are categorically not up for bailing out their neighbours. This is what happens when politicans across the continent push ahead with political schemes without the consent of their people.

Just because one country has financial difficulties as part of the Euro and it's suddenly the worst. Using that same flawed logic then I Top Trump you with Germany

That isn't my logic at all so not sure how you reach that conclusion, I'd clearly said that a combination of Greece plus the other PIGS countries going the same way could sink it. Ironically it's likely to be Germany (as the main source of any bailout plans) that would pull the plug.

The French might threaten to take their ball home but I stand by the comment that if it goes down it will be because ze Germans have had enough.

If the Euro does go belly up at some point it's going to lead to a fundamental realignment of British politics and not a moment too soon imo.