Bolitics The New Condem Government

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Clearly Brand is advocating for democracy to be replaced by a 'dictatorship of the people', but instead of the old Marxist 'workers' taking over, the 'people' are the thousands of millionaires and billionaires in the celebrity class, who are sick of being told what to do and scrutinised by us lowly plebs and instead want complete freedom to flash their cocks/tits/chest hair and for us to worship their every egotistical movement, and we (plebs) will have no choice but to spend all our money on vain attempts to become one of the beautiful rich people, but we never will because Brand and co will conveniently keep the army & police on their side despite disbanding all other forms of government. Health/Education etc will be run by powerless collectives at a local level but behind the scenes Keith Lemon and Kelly Brook etc will make the decisions about what our children are taught and who gets the kidney operation or not, with the ultimate goal being a complete eradication of critical thought and borderline genocide of anyone they deem more beautiful than they.

[villaajax]

 

if you're not happy vote them out

We live in a democracy by name only. We vote one bunch out and the other similar bunch get in.

 

 

Yawn...

[Awol]

 

 

if you're not happy vote them out

We live in a democracy by name only. We vote one bunch out and the other similar bunch get in.

 

 

Yawn...

 

If you don't realise the absolute truth of Bickster's statement then yes, you may as well roll over and go back to sleep.

 

We don't have politicians in Westminster, we have managers with the same backgrounds, the same friends, the same degrees, selling different styles and creating the illusion of choice.  If Labour get in at the next GE what current policies do you think they'll roll back? Any changes will be cosmetic only. Much as I dislike the term "liblab-con" it does sum up the reality, but the system is set up to crush any attempts to establish an alternative.

 

On Brand, he is correct that an actual revolution would be required to substantially alter the status quo. What grates is that having emerged from a fog of opiates and alcohol he is confusing a personal epiphany with original thought (he'll find after some reading that Marx got there first some time ago) and shouting it to the world because Russell has realised the truth and we'd all better listen up - his narcissism/messiah complex.  When he starts radically redistributing his own wealth he'll deserve to be taken a wee bit more seriously.

[Kingfisher]

I've seen interviews with Brand where he's talked about politics and he's mentioned Marx and other political philosophies, I think he's quite well read, more so than people on here give him credit for. As for him not giving his money away, well yes, that weakens his position, but not the argument and I don't think the two should be confused. Someone trying to undermine the argument, that the current system sucks, and that it is aimed at preserving the wealth of the few, might conflate the two.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Kingfisher

[Awol]

I've seen interviews with Brand where he's talked about politics and he's mentioned Marx and other political philosophies, I think he's quite well read, more so than people on here give him credit for. As for him not giving his money away, well yes, that weakens his position, but not the argument and I don't think the two should be confused.

 I wasn't aware that there was a credible argument? Marxism (or to keep it simple, anything further left than democratic socialism) has failed utterly everywhere it was attempted, being the root cause of misery, tyranny and many tens of millions of deaths.  I wouldn't deny the attractiveness of theory but unfortunately it doesn't survive first contact with human nature. 

[Kingfisher]

I don't think Marx's ideas have ever been developed properly, have they. That's the problem, a problem of application not idea.

[chrisp65]

 

I've seen interviews with Brand where he's talked about politics and he's mentioned Marx and other political philosophies, I think he's quite well read, more so than people on here give him credit for. As for him not giving his money away, well yes, that weakens his position, but not the argument and I don't think the two should be confused.

 I wasn't aware that there was a credible argument? Marxism (or to keep it simple, anything further left than democratic socialism) has failed utterly everywhere it was attempted, being the root cause of misery, tyranny and many tens of millions of deaths.  I wouldn't deny the attractiveness of theory but unfortunately it doesn't survive first contact with human nature. 

 

 

Having read a little bit on Marx and his theories, I'd be interested to know where they've been tried out.

 

Waitrose is the closest example I can think of.

[Eames]

 

 

I've seen interviews with Brand where he's talked about politics and he's mentioned Marx and other political philosophies, I think he's quite well read, more so than people on here give him credit for. As for him not giving his money away, well yes, that weakens his position, but not the argument and I don't think the two should be confused.

 I wasn't aware that there was a credible argument? Marxism (or to keep it simple, anything further left than democratic socialism) has failed utterly everywhere it was attempted, being the root cause of misery, tyranny and many tens of millions of deaths.  I wouldn't deny the attractiveness of theory but unfortunately it doesn't survive first contact with human nature. 

 

 

Having read a little bit on Marx and his theories, I'd be interested to know where they've been tried out.

 

Waitrose is the closest example I can think of.

 

I'd like to think that Marx has a little chuckle at that one. 

 

The most shamelessly (upper)/middle class retailer in the country with its Marxist principles. 

[mjmooney]

Marxism has never been attempted. Or, when it has, it's been strangled at birth and immediately supplanted by an oligarchy posing as Marxist.

 

Which may in itself indicate a fatal flaw in the theory - it's a great idea that won't ever be allowed to work as long as there are enough utter shits with guns (literal or metaphorical).

[Awol]

I don't think Marx's ideas have ever been developed properly, have they. That's the problem, a problem of application not idea.

I would argue that Communism is the political realisation of Marxist ideology and that they are indivisible from each other, hence the comment that the theory doesn't survive practical implementation (i.e. is corrupted by human nature), with the added bonus of murdering tens of millions in the quest to make everyone "equal".

 

To be fair, maybe Brand is yet to read about the liquidation of the Kulak's (class genocide) or Mao's "Great Leap Forward"...

[drat01]

 

I don't think Marx's ideas have ever been developed properly, have they. That's the problem, a problem of application not idea.

I would argue that Communism is the political realisation of Marxist ideology and that they are indivisible from each other, hence the comment that the theory doesn't survive practical implementation (i.e. is corrupted by human nature), with the added bonus of murdering tens of millions in the quest to make everyone "equal".

 

To be fair, maybe Brand is yet to read about the liquidation of the Kulak's (class genocide) or Mao's "Great Leap Forward"...

 

Nope Marxism and Communism are NOT the same

[Awol]

 

 

I don't think Marx's ideas have ever been developed properly, have they. That's the problem, a problem of application not idea.

I would argue that Communism is the political realisation of Marxist ideology and that they are indivisible from each other, hence the comment that the theory doesn't survive practical implementation (i.e. is corrupted by human nature), with the added bonus of murdering tens of millions in the quest to make everyone "equal".

 

To be fair, maybe Brand is yet to read about the liquidation of the Kulak's (class genocide) or Mao's "Great Leap Forward"...

 

Nope Marxism and Communism are NOT the same

 

I didn't say they were. I did say that Marxism is the political theory and Communism is the political reality that comes about when that theory is implemented in real life.

 

If I'm wrong I'd be interested to know what the theoretical and philosophical underpinning of Communism is?

[Awol]

Drat,

 

From the ever reliable wiki:

 

Communism

 

Marxist theory holds that the lower-phase of communism, colloquially referred to as socialism, being the new society established after the overthrow of capitalism, is a transitional stage in human social evolution and will give rise to a fully communist society, in which remuneration and the division of labor are no longer present.

[tonyh29]

Marxism has never been attempted. Or, when it has, it's been strangled at birth and immediately supplanted by an oligarchy posing as Marxist.

 

 

This huge bloke with red glowing eyes came back from the future , mumbled something about come with me if you want to live and then told me of the horrors that befall this country after it elected a Marxist leader in 2015  .... first the lights went off  and half the country froze to death when the power followed after some botched price freeze attempt  , then  companies went bankrupt as they had to employ 2 people for every job they gave to a foreigner  whilst the millionnaire Markist milked and punished  business to the fullest extent possible 

 

all that survived were tax dodging rich who were looked after by the new leader  , the Union flag was removed and replaced with a red flag with a giant H on it

 

 

I would have found out more but sadly the robot died as the Corporation that created him in the future suffered a blackout in the present  and production stopped

[mjmooney]

Very good.

[snowychap]

If I'm wrong I'd be interested to know what the theoretical and philosophical underpinning of Communism is?

Which branch of communism?

[tonyh29]

I thought  most socialist countries were based on Marxist principal  , with a bit of Lenin thrown in for good measure in some cases ?

[Awol]

 

If I'm wrong I'd be interested to know what the theoretical and philosophical underpinning of Communism is?

Which branch of communism?

 

All political communism has a common root in Marxism, be that Leninism, Stalinism or Maoism. 

 

EDIT: Perhaps a decent analogy might be the various Christian churches having a common root in the teachings of Jesus.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Awol

[snowychap]

EDIT: Perhaps a decent analogy might be the various Christian churches having a common root in the teachings of Jesus.

I don't think that's a decent analogy at all unless you are suggesting that communistic political ideas didn't exist before Marx.

[Awol]

 

EDIT: Perhaps a decent analogy might be the various Christian churches having a common root in the teachings of Jesus.

I don't think that's a decent analogy at all unless you are suggesting that communistic political ideas didn't exist before Marx.

 

Communistic social ideals go back to the Druids, but the various far left Communistic movements of the post 1917 era - when "Communism" entered the political lexicon of the modern world - have their roots in Marxism.