Bolitics The New Condem Government

[StefanAVFC]

Oh and that test that we came so low in recently? One of many. We come considerably higher in many more.

 

This quote from somewhere else made me laugh.

 

 

 

There are several international comparison tests, not just the ones Gove talks about.

At the moment it's like Gove is going onto a price comparison website, picking the most expensive quote in the list, and saying, "See? Insurance is really expensive! Take over the insurance companies! We will tell them how to sell insurance!" 

What he hasn't done is sorted the list so you can see the lowest prices, or work out which offers the best value to customers like you, when you take everything into account. If we were to do that with the English education system, then most customers would be thinking, "Well that quote is in the top 10, and the customer service is supposed to be very good for most people, so let's go along with that one".

Incidentally I am not sure whether he knows he is doing this, or whether he just doesn't understand how to read figures properly. Many of us are starting to suspect the latter, as he has said some things in Parliament that suggest he misunderstands basic GCSE type statistics - in fact he regularly looks a bit silly when the numbers come out.

[StigVillan]

And schools are therefore confronted by this problem of 'inclusion' - if you provide places for children with Special Educational Needs, they are still included in your data.

Do the statisticians care? No.

They still want to know why that cohort didn't achieve over 90% and won't take any explanation that involves you saying, there is no way those children were going to get there.

They fail to understand that the PROGRESS those children make, contextually, is pretty phenomenal, looking at the contextual point at which they entered school, to the point you managed to get them to. Tough. They didn't reach the accepted level. They might have behavioural, processing or learning difficulties, but you didn't churn out the right statistic so now you have to be explain yourself.

The removal of contextual value added was a joke.

Edited October 17, 2013 by StigVillan

[StefanAVFC]

Exactly mate. I sat in on an APP session with a year 5 child who's currently working at a 2c for literacy. He is making phenomenal progress this year and is at a 2b already. However, there is no way he will make a 4 in year 6. But without context, that will just say 'child is below national average'.

 

Going back to that Free School on the previous page. How did it stay open so long!?

 

Oh and one of the things that teachers are striking about is the usage of unqualified teachers. But that'll get lost in the typical 'lazy, gold plated pension, 9-3, 13 weeks holiday' rhetoric that gets spouted whenever teachers are in the news.

Edited October 17, 2013 by StefanAVFC

[tonyh29]

It didn't start in 2010, I never thought it, I never wrote it, please reply to what I write. If anybody else says that, have that argument, until then it's rather putting words in people's mouths.

Yeah fair enough my bad ... I fell into ahh but labour mode a bit there

[markavfc40]

 

It didn't start in 2010, I never thought it, I never wrote it, please reply to what I write. If anybody else says that, have that argument, until then it's rather putting words in people's mouths.

Yeah fair enough my bad ... I fell into ahh but labour mode a bit there

 

 

 

It your default mode Tony so its totally understandable mate

[peterms]

 

 

 

KennyPowers, on 17 Oct 2013 - 6:15 PM, said:

 

Richard, on 17 Oct 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

 

privateer, on 17 Oct 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

 

Awol, on 17 Oct 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

 

villaajax, on 17 Oct 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

chrisp65, on 17 Oct 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Alan Duncan at No 256

 

he'll know about this list, and he'll be gutted

 

Literally, I hope, with a Bowie knife.

 

Well done, post of the year.

 

A real sickener for the rest of us who can only gape in awe at the scintillating wit of these snappy one liners. Not sure I can agree with post of the year because the competition is so stiff. They are all of the same quality.

 

This comes back to something I said last week actually.

 

For me the vitriolic hatred that laces political comments is more prevalent in those of a left wing nature in my experience.  Not being specific to this thread or this forum,  but in general.  And I'm not entirely sure why,  it is interesting though.

 

 

I think you're completely right. I tried to make a similar point earlier. I don't understand how people who claim to be so such bastions or tolerance and compassion can rationalise their abusive posts. Well I don't think they can really and as you allude to, their comments betray their hatred and intolerance. 

 

Somehow I can't see these posts lasting long but here goes ...

 

I think to a degree Richard and yourself have a small  point  ... I like the posters on here , some I've met and know personally and know that the politics thread can bring out a different side to them 

 

 If I was really pushed to express it  my personal opinion would also be that the left side on this thread are more abusive ( scum comments , Thatcher etc ) ... I think the left get more worked up about what they see as social injustice , where as the right seem to just want to take the piss out of millionaire Ed and his hypercritical policies

 

However  , I suspect that if you polled the left side  they would say oh no no it's all the right side of VT and give examples ( can't think of an example off hand  )

 

different opinions and all that  .. ultimately it's the interweb and 99.9% of it shouldn't be taken too seriously  .. Would Ajax go out with a Bowie knife and gut Alan Duncan thinking he was Iain Duncan Smith  , probably not  .. does saying it on a forum make him a bad bloke , probably not  .. should we spend the next dozens posts ripping the piss out of him for it ..Oh yes

 

 

You clearly haven't seen him play GTA then

 

 

That was a shotgun, not a knife

 

 

Does anyone else think we should bring back the restriction on multiple quoting?

[tonyh29]

KennyPowers, on 17 Oct 2013 - 6:15 PM, said:

Richard, on 17 Oct 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

privateer, on 17 Oct 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Awol, on 17 Oct 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

villaajax, on 17 Oct 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

chrisp65, on 17 Oct 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Alan Duncan at No 256

he'll know about this list, and he'll be gutted

Literally, I hope, with a Bowie knife.

Well done, post of the year.

A real sickener for the rest of us who can only gape in awe at the scintillating wit of these snappy one liners. Not sure I can agree with post of the year because the competition is so stiff. They are all of the same quality.

This comes back to something I said last week actually.

For me the vitriolic hatred that laces political comments is more prevalent in those of a left wing nature in my experience. Not being specific to this thread or this forum, but in general. And I'm not entirely sure why, it is interesting though.

I think you're completely right. I tried to make a similar point earlier. I don't understand how people who claim to be so such bastions or tolerance and compassion can rationalise their abusive posts. Well I don't think they can really and as you allude to, their comments betray their hatred and intolerance.

Somehow I can't see these posts lasting long but here goes ...

I think to a degree Richard and yourself have a small point ... I like the posters on here , some I've met and know personally and know that the politics thread can bring out a different side to them

If I was really pushed to express it my personal opinion would also be that the left side on this thread are more abusive ( scum comments , Thatcher etc ) ... I think the left get more worked up about what they see as social injustice , where as the right seem to just want to take the piss out of millionaire Ed and his hypercritical policies

However , I suspect that if you polled the left side they would say oh no no it's all the right side of VT and give examples ( can't think of an example off hand )

different opinions and all that .. ultimately it's the interweb and 99.9% of it shouldn't be taken too seriously .. Would Ajax go out with a Bowie knife and gut Alan Duncan thinking he was Iain Duncan Smith , probably not .. does saying it on a forum make him a bad bloke , probably not .. should we spend the next dozens posts ripping the piss out of him for it ..Oh yes

You clearly haven't seen him play GTA then

That was a shotgun, not a knife

Does anyone else think we should bring back the restriction on multiple quoting?

No

[peterms]

Oh and one of the things that teachers are striking about is the usage of unqualified teachers. But that'll get lost in the typical 'lazy, gold plated pension, 9-3, 13 weeks holiday' rhetoric that gets spouted whenever teachers are in the news.

 

Sadly true.  Usually spouted by people who assume all hours worked are equivalent, whether it involves simple work at an easy pace, or lunching clients, or being on the internet while the boss can't see, or gutting chickens, or handling a class of hormonal 14-year olds.

 

I've never taught children, but I've taught adults both in training courses and in formal education, and I found it one of the more tiring and draining jobs I've had (and I've had a few).  It's a bit sad that some people who know nothing about teaching are so dismissive of what teachers do, and that their criticism is so shallow that it's usually limited to hours, holidays, or daring to join a trade union.

[peterms]

No

Now Tony, we've already established that you can't manage the quote function. Your view here is therefore special pleading, and will be discounted. Sorry.

[tonyh29]

Oh and one of the things that teachers are striking about is the usage of unqualified teachers. But that'll get lost in the typical 'lazy, gold plated pension, 9-3, 13 weeks holiday' rhetoric that gets spouted whenever teachers are in the news.

Sadly true. Usually spouted by people who assume all hours worked are equivalent, whether it involves simple work at an easy pace, or lunching clients, or being on the internet while the boss can't see, or gutting chickens, or handling a class of hormonal 14-year olds.

I've never taught children, but I've taught adults both in training courses and in formal education, and I found it one of the more tiring and draining jobs I've had (and I've had a few). It's a bit sad that some people who know nothing about teaching are so dismissive of what teachers do, and that their criticism is so shallow that it's usually limited to hours, holidays, or daring to join a trade union.

Internet ribbing apart does anyone actually think that ?

You could argue of course the teacher stereotyping is no worse than that of champagne quaffing city bankers earning £3m a year for dining out on expenses etc stereotyping

[tonyh29]

http://www.sexymp.co.uk/index.php?gender=#vote

Look at all those Tories in the top 25!

No Gloria de Piero in the top 25 ? Even without the topless pics she's better than all of them

[peterms]

 

 

Oh and one of the things that teachers are striking about is the usage of unqualified teachers. But that'll get lost in the typical 'lazy, gold plated pension, 9-3, 13 weeks holiday' rhetoric that gets spouted whenever teachers are in the news.

Sadly true. Usually spouted by people who assume all hours worked are equivalent, whether it involves simple work at an easy pace, or lunching clients, or being on the internet while the boss can't see, or gutting chickens, or handling a class of hormonal 14-year olds.

I've never taught children, but I've taught adults both in training courses and in formal education, and I found it one of the more tiring and draining jobs I've had (and I've had a few). It's a bit sad that some people who know nothing about teaching are so dismissive of what teachers do, and that their criticism is so shallow that it's usually limited to hours, holidays, or daring to join a trade union.

 

Internet ribbing apart does anyone actually think that ?

You could argue of course the teacher stereotyping is no worse than that of champagne quaffing city bankers earning £3m a year for dining out on expenses etc stereotyping

 

Well the press print it, and people in the pub and on the radio and in workplaces relate it like it's an accurate assessment of how "easy" a teaching job is compared to their own.  Divide and rule again.

 

Teachers working the (classroom) hours they do and having the (nominal) holidays they do is a fact.  The question is whether that produces a benefit which justifies their terms and conditions in relation to what most other people do.

 

Similarly the working habits of people in the City are a fact (though there's more variance, with some quaffing champagne while others sleep under their desks having been pointlessly required to stay late for no reason except to show they want to make it to the grade of champagne-quaffers, etc).  The question is whether that produces a benefit which justifies...oh no, sorry, that would be a pretty daft question.

[snowychap]

This comes back to something I said last week actually.

 

For me the vitriolic hatred that laces political comments is more prevalent in those of a left wing nature in my experience.  Not being specific to this thread or this forum,  but in general.  And I'm not entirely sure why,  it is interesting though.

Is it interesting that the opinion you hold is one biased against a group of which you are not a part (and by implication in favour of a group of which, I guess, you are a part)?

Or is it interesting that this should be something that you inform us of more than once (h/t to you )?

Or is it actually interesting that you appear to be saying that you are not entirely sure why you hold an opinion?

[StigVillan]

I am in school by 7:30am and preparing for the day. I don't have breakfast because I don't have the time. The kids are in by 8:45am and we supervise them from that point on. We havean hour for dinner but this is largely taken up by dealing with incidents, marking and typing up assessments from previous lessons. Home time usually brings two or three meetings with parents to justify why their children have been chastised during the day. After that, more marking and possibly meetings with staff. Leave school at around 6pm. Marking then continues after tea and collection of resources for next day until bed time at around 10pm. Then get up and do it again.

Action plans and planning are done over weekends and this can be substantial if scrutiny meetings and Moderation are in cycle.

Children regularly treat you like crap. The media regularly tell you you're lazy. Parents regularly tell you that their child is a genius and you're obviously useless. Ofsted want you to charm the moon from the sky in order to be judged as good anymore. And people without the first clue of what teaching involves make ridiculous and highly inaccurate generalisations.

Teachers have lost out on pay today bending to a union whose ideas are dated and whose action is ridiculously futile. But we can't opt out otherwise you're tarred by colleagues.

The public's opinion of us seems largely negative and we are consistently told that we have an easy life.

Let's say in a class of 30 kids that each child produces 2 pages of work in each lesson. If that includes Literacy, Numeracy, History and Science there are 240 pages of work needing to be marked for the next day so that those kids get the feedback they need to produce their best work the next day. It might also impact upon planning as some groups might require intervention to address needs. This happens EVERY night.

I'm sick to death of the holidays argument too. That was introduced for children. Many teachers think it is outdated and needs reform, but to suggest we lie around sunbathing is ridiculous. Teachers have practice papers to mark, assessments to type up, data to analyse, extra curricular clubs to organise and booster classes to plan for. Some come in during holidays to refurbish libraries or IT rooms.

It's also a chance to spend time with our children that we otherwise see for around an hour a day if they are particularly young and go to bed early.

Everyone has a hard work/life balance. I completely agree.

But it's time we stopped taking the piss out of each other and started supporting one another or we are going to be walked all over.

[snowychap]

 

StefanAVFC, on 17 Oct 2013 - 6:49 PM, said:StefanAVFC, on 17 Oct 2013 - 6:49 PM, said:

It's not unreasonable for prices to go up while inflation and wage prices go up.

 

However, when wages go up 0.7% and inflation around 2.2% and the gas prices go up almost 10%, it's taking the piss a tad isn't it?

That's what happens when a deluded fu**wit thinks he can implement a prize freeze in 2015

Or what happens when some other deluded chap thinks that there's a market solution.

 

[chrisp65]

 

 

Oh and one of the things that teachers are striking about is the usage of unqualified teachers. But that'll get lost in the typical 'lazy, gold plated pension, 9-3, 13 weeks holiday' rhetoric that gets spouted whenever teachers are in the news.

Sadly true. Usually spouted by people who assume all hours worked are equivalent, whether it involves simple work at an easy pace, or lunching clients, or being on the internet while the boss can't see, or gutting chickens, or handling a class of hormonal 14-year olds.

I've never taught children, but I've taught adults both in training courses and in formal education, and I found it one of the more tiring and draining jobs I've had (and I've had a few). It's a bit sad that some people who know nothing about teaching are so dismissive of what teachers do, and that their criticism is so shallow that it's usually limited to hours, holidays, or daring to join a trade union.

 

Internet ribbing apart does anyone actually think that ?

You could argue of course the teacher stereotyping is no worse than that of champagne quaffing city bankers earning £3m a year for dining out on expenses etc stereotyping

 

 

I'm not sure many really believe it, but it is funny because invariably teachers are uber sensitive about it, which makes me suspect.......

 

I've also discussed this previously with Stef, and it's a subject that gets heated. There are many levels of teaching and like every job there are good and bad teachers and there are easier and harder places to teach. I know a few teachers, I wouldn't want to do their job, I also don't feel particularly sorry for them with their 2 volvo long summer lifestyle.

 

Two of the biggest influences on me were two inspirational teachers, one of whom, 37 years later, I'm good friends with..

[peterms]

 

This comes back to something I said last week actually.

 

For me the vitriolic hatred that laces political comments is more prevalent in those of a left wing nature in my experience.  Not being specific to this thread or this forum,  but in general.  And I'm not entirely sure why,  it is interesting though.

Is it interesting that the opinion you hold is one biased against a group of which you are not a part (and by implication in favour of a group of which, I guess, you are a part)?

Or is it interesting that this should be something that you inform us of more than once (h/t to you )?

Or is it actually interesting that you appear to be saying that you are not entirely sure why you hold an opinion?

 

 

I didn't think it was an opinion, just a bit of coat-trailing, looking for a reaction.  I am advised the word for which I am searching is "trolling".

[tonyh29]

I'm not sure many really believe it, but it is funny because invariably teachers are uber sensitive about it, which makes me suspect.......

Yeah couple of my old school friends are teachers ,most of their posts on Facebook are about how they've just worked a 20 hour day .. Sadly for them such posts are greeted with lucky you have 150 days a year holiday to recover ( well that's mainly me tbh ) posts ... If you want sympathy then honestly Facebook or VillaTalk ain't the place to go seeking it

[tonyh29]

Talking of Facebook .. One of my friends has just got a job after being unemployed for over a year... He's just gone off on a top rant to Osborne , Cameron ,IDS about how they should try and live off the money he has had to for the past year....

If I post to ask how he was able to afford a 3 day pass to the Isle of Wight Festival , a holiday in Spain and even a lads weekend away with myself to see the Who in concert (amongst many )

Does anyone think I might upset him ?

[peterms]

....and whilst I'm on it, what the fucksox are the government doing negotiating building and managing a nuclear power station with the Chinese! There's a disjointed national energy security policy, and then there's inviting China in to sell us nuclear.

Some people might be puzzled why it's dreadful 60's socialistic dogma to think that our national utilities should be owned by our government, whereas it's just fine for them to be owned by the French government or Chinese government.

 

Yes, a bit of a puzzle, that one.  Because governments might be hoped to act in the national interests of, er...

 

Look!  Over there!  It's the X factor!  Or a woman whose tits are showing!