peterms Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 if the Mirror are forgiven , then surely Murdoch is ... it's an easy enough question , a simple yes or No is all it requiresNo.The Morgan issue and the history of NI concealing evidence about hacking over a period of years are wholly dissimilar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 A really interesting element to this is that this week the Conservative Conference is going on. Things like that do have a positive affect for political parties actually and they have a chance to make some policy announcements, Bearing that in mind I find it really interesting that some are more exercised by this story and the ongoing ructions around it, perhaps even trying to continue to perpetuate the story and look for any Tory link for some reason rather than focusing on what is happening at the conference. For me , I agree with Cameron that if it was my Dad I'd also be in uproar and I guess I agree with Ed Milliband wanting to do similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 1, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2013 Has anyone actually asked Ed Milliband what he thinks of the Trotskyite Socialist Worker headline? I'm not sure why anyone would ask him,as it has nothing to do with the Labour Party. Now if they'd asked George Galloway, the question might have some relevance but even Respect has had nothing to do with the SWP since 2007 so even that would be tenuous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 yeah the timing is interesting isn't it ... the article has been in the public domain for years and the Mail decide to run it now ( the conspiracy theorist in me would even say that they picked it up from VT as we discussed it a few days before they ran it ) and as I said earlier Ed has come out of this rather well and anything the Tories say in conference has been over shadowed and likely to be lost I guess the million € question is , were the Tories behind it hoping to detract from some painful announcements ..or were the Labs behind it to deflect form anything positive the Tories might have to say but , nah ..surely politics doesn't work like that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Has anyone actually asked Ed Milliband what he thinks of the Trotskyite Socialist Worker headline? I'm not sure why anyone would ask him,as it has nothing to do with the Labour Party. Now if they'd asked George Galloway, the question might have some relevance but even Respect has had nothing to do with the SWP since 2007 so even that would be tenuous. and what exactly is the Daily Mail to Cameron ..so your argument though valid is kinda flawed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2013 Ralph Milliband was certainly a Marxist, but 'hate Britain' he most certainly did not (unless in MailSpeak 'the Tories' and 'Britain' are synonymous). . I speak from personal knowledge - he was one of my tutors at university. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 mjmooney, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:24 PM, said: Ralph Milliband was certainly a Marxist, but 'hate Britain' he most certainly did not (unless in MailSpeak 'the Tories' and 'Britain' are synonymous). . I speak from personal knowledge - he was one of my tutors at university. he's older than I thought then the articles does attribute some interesting quotes to him but your first hand knowledge is almost certainly more reliable than the words of some hack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I am finding it quite amazing that some Tory supporters are even arguing about this vile episode. Tony all you are doing us deflect and resort to ahh but labour .., which is quite sad really . For all Cameron's marketing background let alone common decency he should have just come out condemning the mail and he would have avoided any scrutiny or rightful criticism . As said an own goal by the right wing and its supporters and one that really does show up a lot of what people think of that type of thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Its a shitty thing for the Mail to have done. It is indefensible and should have been widely condemned by everyone regardless of political colour or opinion. HOWEVER, I do understand why Cameron has not criticised one of his party's mouthpieces publicly..... Come on chaps, there are plenty of sticks bigger and better to beat Cameron up with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 1, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2013 Has anyone actually asked Ed Milliband what he thinks of the Trotskyite Socialist Worker headline? I'm not sure why anyone would ask him,as it has nothing to do with the Labour Party. Now if they'd asked George Galloway, the question might have some relevance but even Respect has had nothing to do with the SWP since 2007 so even that would be tenuous. and what exactly is the Daily Mail to Cameron ..so your argument though valid is kinda flawed Except I wasn't forming an argument, just pointing out how daft your post was in the first place And the Daily Mail to Cameron, hmm I suspect its a paper he'd rather didn't exist but that he has to pander to as all the dimwitted blue rinsed old bidies at Con Clubs up and down the country believe every word they write 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I think that once against, tories and labour supporters should come together as one, and be grateful that America has made our government look reasonable and cooperative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see that In addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 To my knowledge this "episode " isn't even being discussed ... You went off on one about Cameron , the article is irrelevant in your universe Peter then brought up the Ahhh but 60 years ago argument .. surely attacking the Daily Mail and its current owners attitudes by highlighting what their forebears did and believed during the 30s is slightly hypercritical but hey ho but keep digging , when you reach Australia say Hello to Kylie Minogue for me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Going back to The Socialist Worker, it's not like it is a national newspaper, I'm sure there are many who have never heard of it. I've never seen it sold round where I live... Though it is a dirty Tory area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Peter then brought up the Ahhh but 60 years ago argument .. surely attacking the Daily Mail and its current owners attitudes by highlighting what their forebears did and believed during the 30s is slightly hypercritical but hey ho I'm not sure. It'd be hypocritical for the Daily Mail to say it's unfair to be attacked based on their forebears, after publishing that headline, not necessarily for anyone else to use that approach against them in retaliation. It's analogous to the DM editor punching Miliband in the face without provocation, Miliband hitting him back, then the DM editor saying that using violence was a bit inappropriate. It's a ridiculous defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 1, 2013 Author Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2013 Politics does create some strange bed fellows at times. I have just heard a really interesting interview with John Prescott about this and he has said he agrees with the way that Cameron has condemned this and what Cameron has said. Strange then that some can't see thatIn addition they read extracts from some of the things Ralph millibar has said about how "you almost wish they would lose the war". Not saying personal attacks against the man for holding opinions are valid before anyone starts but seeing as Ed has held his dad up as a great source of inspiration you can understand some media interrogation of his viewsYou know he said those things soon after arriving in Britain before he even joined the Royal Navy, I'm sure your 18 year old self said somethings you no longer believe and you would think it unfair to be pilloried on them now surely? And as I assume that this is the case then why bother even mentioning it? Ah of course, must remain on message from Central Office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 yeah the timing is interesting isn't it ... the article has been in the public domain for years and the Mail decide to run it now ( the conspiracy theorist in me would even say that they picked it up from VT as we discussed it a few days before they ran it ) and as I said earlier Ed has come out of this rather well and anything the Tories say in conference has been over shadowed and likely to be lost I guess the million € question is , were the Tories behind it hoping to detract from some painful announcements ..or were the Labs behind it to deflect form anything positive the Tories might have to say but , nah ..surely politics doesn't work like that Isn't it more a case of the Mail trying to take the shine off a fairly successful week for Labour, and misreading things? Followed by twisting the knife and making it a bigger story for the rest of the media, and then putting Cameron is a position of either criticising them (bad idea for him) or else demonstrating that he's too much in hock to the tory press to criticise them (bad idea for him)? I imagine the tory party image managers are pretty pissed off that the Mail have managed to place so much attention on all this. Farage has Godfrey Bloom, and Cameron has Paul Dacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 bickster, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:55 PM, said: tonyh29, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:21 PM, said: bickster, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:16 PM, said: Has anyone actually asked Ed Milliband what he thinks of the Trotskyite Socialist Worker headline? I'm not sure why anyone would ask him,as it has nothing to do with the Labour Party. Now if they'd asked George Galloway, the question might have some relevance but even Respect has had nothing to do with the SWP since 2007 so even that would be tenuous. and what exactly is the Daily Mail to Cameron ..so your argument though valid is kinda flawed Except I wasn't forming an argument, just pointing out how daft your post was in the first place if that was your point , then you failed ( we can all sit at a keyboard and act smug at the end of the day ) The original poster was off on a rant about how Cameron should comment on something that has nothing to do with him ... therefore my linking to an article that has nothing to do with Ed makes perfect sense ? you know full well the point being made .. the outrage should work both ways ..and the attacks on Thatcher were vile and equally not condemned ... ( mind you I'm talking to the wrong person there aren't I ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Going back to The Socialist Worker, it's not like it is a national newspaper, I'm sure there are many who have never heard of it. I've never seen it sold round where I live... Though it is a dirty Tory area. I would imagine with all the butlers, cleaners and gardeners employed by the Tories that the area would be anything but "dirty". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 peterms, on 01 Oct 2013 - 1:06 PM, said: tonyh29, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:20 PM, said: yeah the timing is interesting isn't it ... the article has been in the public domain for years and the Mail decide to run it now ( the conspiracy theorist in me would even say that they picked it up from VT as we discussed it a few days before they ran it ) and as I said earlier Ed has come out of this rather well and anything the Tories say in conference has been over shadowed and likely to be lost I guess the million € question is , were the Tories behind it hoping to detract from some painful announcements ..or were the Labs behind it to deflect form anything positive the Tories might have to say but , nah ..surely politics doesn't work like that Isn't it more a case of the Mail trying to take the shine off a fairly successful week for Labour, and misreading things? Followed by twisting the knife and making it a bigger story for the rest of the media, and then putting Cameron is a position of either criticising them (bad idea for him) or else demonstrating that he's too much in hock to the tory press to criticise them (bad idea for him)? I imagine the tory party image managers are pretty pissed off that the Mail have managed to place so much attention on all this. Farage has Godfrey Bloom, and Cameron has Paul Dacre. Wow and Bicks accused the poster before of being on message from Central Office 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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