tom_avfc Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, andym said: That seems to be the argument for playing him, the runs he gets batting. But that is irrelevant if he is costing more runs than he makes with his keeping errors. Also assumes a better keeper than him i.e. Foakes, who would take those chances, wouldnt make runs with the bat, which i dont think is true. Bairstow had an average of 66 from 19 innings last year and scored 78 in the first innings here. Given that foakes averages 32 I don’t think it’s wild to assume Bairstow would score far more runs over a 5 test series. It then becomes a question as to which batsman you drop to bring in Foakes and I don’t think there’s an obvious choice there either really. You’d have said Crawley before this game but he batted nicely. Duckett was in great form going into this series but looked poor first innings. If you drop an opener I don’t think there’s an obvious choice to move up to open either. I don’t expect them to bring Foakes in. Bairstow took a great catch to get rid of Labuschagne and generally has been a serviceable wicket keeper albeit not top class like Foakes. I think Bazball values the fast runs that the likes of Crawley, Duckett and Bairstow can make more than the couple of missed opportunities. Edited June 18, 2023 by tom_avfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milfner Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) So the 'keeper is dropping everything, and our spinner now has no skin left on his finger. Good stuff! Ollie Robinson just looks so impotent, not seen him even test a batsman yet. Edited June 18, 2023 by Milfner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 The specialist wicketkeeper argument was lost as far back as Alec Stewart over Jack Russell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Milfner said: So the 'keeper is dropping everything, and our spinner now has no skin left on his finger. Good stuff! Ollie Robinson just looks so impotent, not seen him even test a batsman yet. It’s a dreadful pitch to bowl pace on. Cummins went wicketless at over 4 an over. Hazelwood went at 4 an over for his 2 wickets. Boland went at over 6 an over. Australia batting sensibly aren’t going to offer many chances on this. An actual frontline spinner would have been useful for England but we don’t really produce those at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 If they won't bring Foakes in then they need to do some work with Bairstows keeping in between tests. He has been out injured and maybe it just takes time to get back to his best as a keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2023 So disappointing to have got rid of those dangerous batters early, cheaply and then to stutter so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, Milfner said: So the 'keeper is dropping everything, and our spinner now has no skin left on his finger. Good stuff! Ollie Robinson just looks so impotent, not seen him even test a batsman yet. He's no pace. Maybe a mistake not picking Wood. I don't think it was expected for Moeen to bowl over 30 innings first innings. With all the dry weather I think it was pretty obvious spinners would play a key part. In hindsight we needed two spinners this test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Just now, PaulC said: He's no pace. Maybe a mistake not picking Wood. I don't think it was expected for Moeen to bowl over 30 innings first innings. With all the dry weather I think it was pretty obvious spinners would play a key part. In hindsight we needed two spinners this test I’m not sure that Wood offers much on a pitch like this. The pace is negated by the pitch and he just ends up bowling himself into the ground. There’ll be far better pitches for Wood later on in the series. Two spinners would have been nice but the fact that we’ve had to recall Moeen Ali 2 years since his last test shows the state of English spin bowlers. Im not sure that Dawson, Parkinson etc. have much of an impact on this game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 17 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: Bairstow had an average of 66 from 19 innings last year and scored 78 in the first innings here. Given that foakes averages 32 I don’t think it’s wild to assume Bairstow would score far more runs over a 5 test series. It then becomes a question as to which batsman you drop to bring in Foakes and I don’t think there’s an obvious choice there either really. You’d have said Crawley before this game but he batted nicely. Duckett was in great form going into this series but looked poor first innings. If you drop an opener I don’t think there’s an obvious choice to move up to open either. I don’t expect them to bring Foakes in. Bairstow took a great catch to get rid of Labuschagne and generally has been a serviceable wicket keeper albeit not top class like Foakes. I think Bazball values the fast runs that the likes of Crawley, Duckett and Bairstow can make more than the couple of missed opportunities. Bairstow would undoubtedly score more runs, but then if he's dropping more chances and costing more runs Foakes wouldnt need to make many runs batting to have the overall net benefit Agree its tricky to solve the issue though, because as you say how do you rejig the team and still keep all the aggressive batters, an approach which has worked so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 18, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2023 20 minutes ago, Milfner said: So the 'keeper is dropping everything, and our spinner now has no skin left on his finger. Good stuff! Ollie Robinson just looks so impotent, not seen him even test a batsman yet. Cried that one in, well done 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2023 Finally, hopefully we don't let them get too big a lead. For all the criticism, things could have been so different if it wasn't for that Broad no ball last night. The early declaration still seems like an error though. We've just got to find new bowlers though. We've no spinners and they just highlighted that our old man bowling is 5mph slower than Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 36 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Bairstow should 100% be playing IMO, the only question is who keeps. I wouldn’t swap Bairstow out for Foakes, I’d take out one of the specialist batsmen Bairstow is batting at number 7 Pope is vice captain, we won’t leave out Root , Stokes or Brooks so that only leaves Bairstow to come in as an opener for Duckett or Crawley … So it doesn’t really mean we have any option other than playing a below average wicket keeper ….. or we drop Ali and go with Root and Stokes for spin in the absence of any credible alternative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: I’m not sure that Wood offers much on a pitch like this. The pace is negated by the pitch and he just ends up bowling himself into the ground. There’ll be far better pitches for Wood later on in the series. Two spinners would have been nice but the fact that we’ve had to recall Moeen Ali 2 years since his last test shows the state of English spin bowlers. Im not sure that Dawson, Parkinson etc. have 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: Bairstow is batting at number 7 Pope is vice captain, we won’t leave out Root , Stokes or Brooks so that only leaves Bairstow to come in as an opener for Duckett or Crawley … So it doesn’t really mean we have any option other than playing a below average wicket keeper ….. or we drop Ali and go with Root and Stokes for spin in the absence of any credible alternative Be bonkers to not play a proper spinner who ever that may be for the next test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2023 Ooohhh. Possibility of a small lead leaving Australia to bat on the 5th day pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Have to admire Stokes captaincy here. Really inventive fields and plan is working 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Bairstow is batting at number 7 Pope is vice captain, we won’t leave out Root , Stokes or Brooks so that only leaves Bairstow to come in as an opener for Duckett or Crawley … So it doesn’t really mean we have any option other than playing a below average wicket keeper ….. or we drop Ali and go with Root and Stokes for spin in the absence of any credible alternative What would stop us from taking one of the openers out, and then shifting the rest of the order up 1? So Bairstow at 6, Foakes at 7… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 I'd open with Bairstow. He'll be hit and miss too up there, but his hits will be more destructive and effective. Appreciate he is great in the middle order, but he just can't keep well enough. good last half hour recovery from England here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 18, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2023 Well I didnt see a lead of 7 before play started today, great mopping up of the tail Handily right on lunch too. Lunch talk will about batting, not getting the last wickets and then batting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 41 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: The specialist wicketkeeper argument was lost as far back as Alec Stewart over Jack Russell. Foakes is a better batter than Jack Russell was though. Look at their first class records, Foakes has more centuries in about a quarter of the number of games. He’s no mug with the bat, and he’s a fantastic keeper. Anyway, lovely work there stopping Australia from taking the lead. Lovely last half hour from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rodders said: I'd open with Bairstow. He'll be hit and miss too up there, but his hits will be more destructive and effective. Appreciate he is great in the middle order, but he just can't keep well enough. good last half hour recovery from England here Bairstow has won us far more matches with his aggressive lower middle order batting than he’s lost us with his keeping under Stokes and McCullum. He’s been guaranteed runs down there as his average will show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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