The "Witton Lane" Boxing Chat Thread

[AVFCDAN]

Dr Steelhammer, more like Dr Boringhammer, am I right?????

[The_Rev]

He seems like an incredibly nice guy out of the ring but it's like watching Chelsea when they only need a 0-0 to win whenever he fights.

[Dr_Pangloss]

Wlad did his usual. Work behind the jab and be cautious in forcing the action. Jennings ran most of the fight but when he stood still he used a lot of upper body movement, this made Wlad more cautious and prevented from finding his range as easily, it resembled the Eddie Chambers fight in many ways. 

 

Over time I've come to appreciate and respect Wlad more. He has the very best jab in the business and probably the best straight right hand in the game too. On top of that he has a great left hook and is able to hook off the jab. 

 

He's not the most exciting out there but to be perfectly honest, he's more exciting than Floyd Mayweather since most of his fights at least end in knockouts. Floyd does a lot of grabbing and ugly work without half of the action Wlad delivers!

 

Father time maybe catching up with him a bit and yes he's too cautious for most peoples liking (who can blame him given he has a weak chin) but he's cleaned out his division and has fought against all comers for the most part too. Looks like it's Fury next.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[AshVilla]

So who is people's money on

 

Mayweather or Pacquiao

[YGabbana]

So who is people's money on

Mayweather or Pacquiao

Mayweather by decision

[The_Rev]

I think a lot of people have said it already in the thread back when the fight was announced. 

 

Manny hasn't knocked anybody out since 2009, Floyd hasn't had a clean KO since 2007 so I'm sticking by my prediction, Mayweather on points, possibly wide.  He'll have the judges on his side (he might not need them) but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as the fight is at least five years past it's sell by date.  

 

Glad it's happening obviously, but they should have met somewhere between 2007 and 2010 and whatever happens it won't settle the debate about who was the better fighter at their peak.  IMO that was Pacquiao. 

[YGabbana]

I think a lot of people have said it already in the thread back when the fight was announced.

Manny hasn't knocked anybody out since 2009, Floyd hasn't had a clean KO since 2007 so I'm sticking by my prediction, Mayweather on points, possibly wide. He'll have the judges on his side (he might not need them) but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as the fight is at least five years past it's sell by date.

Glad it's happening obviously, but they should have met somewhere between 2007 and 2010 and whatever happens it won't settle the debate about who was the better fighter at their peak. IMO that was Pacquiao.

How can Paquiao have been better at his peak when Mayweather is unbeaten amd never been knocked down?

[The_Rev]

Joe Calzaghe was unbeaten too. He must be better than Muhammad Ali. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

 

I think a lot of people have said it already in the thread back when the fight was announced.

Manny hasn't knocked anybody out since 2009, Floyd hasn't had a clean KO since 2007 so I'm sticking by my prediction, Mayweather on points, possibly wide. He'll have the judges on his side (he might not need them) but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as the fight is at least five years past it's sell by date.

Glad it's happening obviously, but they should have met somewhere between 2007 and 2010 and whatever happens it won't settle the debate about who was the better fighter at their peak. IMO that was Pacquiao.

How can Paquiao have been better at his peak when Mayweather is unbeaten amd never been knocked down?

 

Much greater fighters than Mayweather have been beaten and knocked down. Pacquiao undoubtedly has the better resume than Mayweather, that's for sure.

 

I see this as a toss up fight, ultimately I think Mayweather will win but it will be very close, I fail to see how it'll be wide, unless I'm missing something Pacquiao is a good deal better offensively than anyone Floyd has ever fought. His speed and angles will cause a lot of problems. I don't doubt for a minute that Pacquiao can win if the strategy is right and Floyd this time, unlike against all the others, doesn't quite adjust quick enough.

 

Mayweather will have to adapt and his usual tools will, IMO, not be as effective, by that I mean the 'Michigan half guard' (what the kids call the 'shoulder roll') will not be as effective against southpaws as orthodox fighters. Southpaws with speed in the past have had some success landing the left hand on Floyd (Judah and Corley). Also, left hand dominant orthodox fighters, have had success with jabs and left hands thrown from the orthodox stance (Cotto and De La Hoya). I don't think Floyd defends the straight left that well, or at least not as well as he defends a straight right hand. 

 

I do think that Floyd will eventually start to time Pacquiao, but I think that will take a few rounds to do, so I think Pacquiao will have banked a decent margin on Floyd before this happens, hence it will be very close. 

Edited April 27, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[Dr_Pangloss]

Joe Calzaghe was unbeaten too. He must be better than Muhammad Ali. 

Don't forget the great Sven Ottke.

[YGabbana]

I think a lot of people have said it already in the thread back when the fight was announced.

Manny hasn't knocked anybody out since 2009, Floyd hasn't had a clean KO since 2007 so I'm sticking by my prediction, Mayweather on points, possibly wide. He'll have the judges on his side (he might not need them) but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as the fight is at least five years past it's sell by date.

Glad it's happening obviously, but they should have met somewhere between 2007 and 2010 and whatever happens it won't settle the debate about who was the better fighter at their peak. IMO that was Pacquiao.

How can Paquiao have been better at his peak when Mayweather is unbeaten amd never been knocked down?

Much greater fighters than Mayweather have been beaten and knocked down. Pacquiao undoubtedly has the better resume than Mayweather, that's for sure.

I see this as a toss up fight, ultimately I think Mayweather will win but it will be very close, I fail to see how it'll be wide, unless I'm missing something Pacquiao is a good deal better offensively than anyone Floyd has ever fought. His speed and angles will cause a lot of problems. I don't doubt for a minute that Pacquiao can win if the strategy is right and Floyd this time, unlike against all the others, doesn't quite adjust quick enough.

Mayweather will have to adapt and his usual tools will, IMO, not be as effective, by that I mean the 'Michigan half guard' (what the kids call the 'shoulder roll') will not be as effective against southpaws as orthodox fighters. Southpaws with speed in the past have had some success landing the left hand on Floyd (Judah and Corley). Also, left hand dominant orthodox fighters, have had success with jabs and left hands thrown from the orthodox stance (Cotto and De La Hoya). I don't think Floyd defends the straight left that well, or at least not as well as he defends a straight right hand.

I do think that Floyd will eventually start to time Pacquiao, but I think that will take a few rounds to do, so I think Pacquiao will have banked a decent margin on Floyd before this happens, hence it will be very close.

I disagree, when you look at their resumes in detail including when they chose to fight certain fighters then they are very similar, i wouldnt say 1 has the better resume.

Paquiao seems to get alot of credit for beating the exact same fighters Floyd foight except Paquiao fought them coming off losses.

On top of that Paquiao was knocking out fighters way bigger than him during a period of being accused of roiding, instead of dispelling the myth by taking a test he refused. Compare that to recently where he couldnt knock out a 140lb fighter despite knocking him down 6 times.

Edited April 28, 2015 by YGabbana

[Dr_Pangloss]

 

 

 

I think a lot of people have said it already in the thread back when the fight was announced.

Manny hasn't knocked anybody out since 2009, Floyd hasn't had a clean KO since 2007 so I'm sticking by my prediction, Mayweather on points, possibly wide. He'll have the judges on his side (he might not need them) but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as the fight is at least five years past it's sell by date.

Glad it's happening obviously, but they should have met somewhere between 2007 and 2010 and whatever happens it won't settle the debate about who was the better fighter at their peak. IMO that was Pacquiao.

How can Paquiao have been better at his peak when Mayweather is unbeaten amd never been knocked down?

Much greater fighters than Mayweather have been beaten and knocked down. Pacquiao undoubtedly has the better resume than Mayweather, that's for sure.

I see this as a toss up fight, ultimately I think Mayweather will win but it will be very close, I fail to see how it'll be wide, unless I'm missing something Pacquiao is a good deal better offensively than anyone Floyd has ever fought. His speed and angles will cause a lot of problems. I don't doubt for a minute that Pacquiao can win if the strategy is right and Floyd this time, unlike against all the others, doesn't quite adjust quick enough.

Mayweather will have to adapt and his usual tools will, IMO, not be as effective, by that I mean the 'Michigan half guard' (what the kids call the 'shoulder roll') will not be as effective against southpaws as orthodox fighters. Southpaws with speed in the past have had some success landing the left hand on Floyd (Judah and Corley). Also, left hand dominant orthodox fighters, have had success with jabs and left hands thrown from the orthodox stance (Cotto and De La Hoya). I don't think Floyd defends the straight left that well, or at least not as well as he defends a straight right hand.

I do think that Floyd will eventually start to time Pacquiao, but I think that will take a few rounds to do, so I think Pacquiao will have banked a decent margin on Floyd before this happens, hence it will be very close.

I disagree, when you look at their resumes in detail including when they chose to fight certain fighters then they are very similar, i wouldnt say 1 has the better resume.

Paquiao seems to get alot of credit for beating the exact same fighters Floyd foight except Paquiao fought them coming off losses.

On top of that Paquiao was knocking out fighters way bigger than him during a period of being accused of roiding, instead of dispelling the myth by taking a test he refused. Compare that to recently where he couldnt knock out a 140lb fighter despite knocking him down 6 times.

 

He gets credit but really it's widely considered that his best wins are against Barrera (twice), Morales (twice), Marquez (twice) and then Cotto (who he fought before Floyd) did. 

 

In terms of the next point, I think that's a little bit of a lazy reading, you really need to consider it on a fight by fight basis. I think the Cotto stoppage was an exceptional performance but gave people a feeling he was some sort of monster who could blast fully fledged welterweights out of there, when really Pacquiao's power, in terms of it's truly devastating effect, peaked at around 135lbs - 140lbs.

 

His last stoppage was against Cotto since then, consider his opponents:

 

Margarito - Massive welterweight and got his face brutally beaten throughout the fight

Clottey - very big welterweight, never been stopped

Mosley - had one of the best chins pound for pound in the past couple of decades, Pacquiao still drops him

Marquez - Great powers of recovery, great chin, never been stopped

Bradley - see Marquez

Rios - Iron chin

Algieri - Runs for the entire fight, gets dropped like 6 times, one of the knock downs he got a count that was longer than 10

 

So yeah, it's clear that his power isn't as much against welterweights, that's really evident, but he can still punch at the weight and I think the steroid accusation just doesn't hold. Besides, roids really aren't going to make you punch with more power, power is not something you can really train for, it's something that, for the most part, you're born with. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[villaglint]

Dr Pangloss I am sure you previously tipped a Pacquiao win for a lot of the reasons you mentioned above.

 

I remember because I've been telling everyone I think Manny will win based on the views of the resident boxing expert on VT Dr Pangloss!!

[Dr_Pangloss]

Dr Pangloss I am sure you previously tipped a Pacquiao win for a lot of the reasons you mentioned above.

 

I remember because I've been telling everyone I think Manny will win based on the views of the resident boxing expert on VT Dr Pangloss!!

LOL I'm far from an expert!

 

As fight time nears I'm starting to flip flop a bit. Basically I think Pacquiao has a chance, more of a chance than any Mayweather opponent in the past 10 years. I just think it's going to be very close, so on that basis it could go either way, but ultimately Mayweather has the intangibles to grind out tough wins, and that could be the difference.

 

Who knows, Mayweather could just pick up Pacquiao's rhythm early, pot shot him and then clinch him thus stopping him working and cruise to a wide decision, that'd truly be egg in my face. 

 

But you know, Pacquiao has that staccato type rhythm, it's highly unorthodox, it's hard to train and prepare for and hard to adjust to. He's always fighting at unorthodox angles, he does this in two ways. Angles for setting up his attack, and angles for moving out of an attack. When setting up his attack he's always looking to alter how he places his lead foot - alternating between placing it inside or outside of his opponents lead foot. This allows him to throw at varied angles, and he makes this difficult to pick up by deploying lots of upper body movement and feints. Then, he's always moving out of an attack out at an angle 'now you see me now you don't'. Thus making him difficult to counter and only very high level counter punchers can have success, now Floyd is an amazing counter puncher but the difference between him and say Marquez is that Marquez is far more aggressive and front foot. 

 

So yeah, Pacquiao should be having his successes, lets see if they win him the fight. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[villaglint]

 

Dr Pangloss I am sure you previously tipped a Pacquiao win for a lot of the reasons you mentioned above.

 

I remember because I've been telling everyone I think Manny will win based on the views of the resident boxing expert on VT Dr Pangloss!!

LOL I'm far from an expert!

 

 

Oh dear...regretting putting the mortgage on it now . Well you talk a good game anyway.

 

Well after 5 years of waiting for this fight it just had to land on a evening I already had booked out with the misses ! We'll be in the middle of nowhere so I think my only hope of watching it is on the ipad. Not ideal but better than nothing, just hope I get some decent wifi...

[lapal_fan]

Who gives a shit about the tiny intricacies.. just pummel the guy..

[YGabbana]

I think a lot of people have said it already in the thread back when the fight was announced.

Manny hasn't knocked anybody out since 2009, Floyd hasn't had a clean KO since 2007 so I'm sticking by my prediction, Mayweather on points, possibly wide. He'll have the judges on his side (he might not need them) but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as the fight is at least five years past it's sell by date.

Glad it's happening obviously, but they should have met somewhere between 2007 and 2010 and whatever happens it won't settle the debate about who was the better fighter at their peak. IMO that was Pacquiao.

How can Paquiao have been better at his peak when Mayweather is unbeaten amd never been knocked down?

Much greater fighters than Mayweather have been beaten and knocked down. Pacquiao undoubtedly has the better resume than Mayweather, that's for sure.

I see this as a toss up fight, ultimately I think Mayweather will win but it will be very close, I fail to see how it'll be wide, unless I'm missing something Pacquiao is a good deal better offensively than anyone Floyd has ever fought. His speed and angles will cause a lot of problems. I don't doubt for a minute that Pacquiao can win if the strategy is right and Floyd this time, unlike against all the others, doesn't quite adjust quick enough.

Mayweather will have to adapt and his usual tools will, IMO, not be as effective, by that I mean the 'Michigan half guard' (what the kids call the 'shoulder roll') will not be as effective against southpaws as orthodox fighters. Southpaws with speed in the past have had some success landing the left hand on Floyd (Judah and Corley). Also, left hand dominant orthodox fighters, have had success with jabs and left hands thrown from the orthodox stance (Cotto and De La Hoya). I don't think Floyd defends the straight left that well, or at least not as well as he defends a straight right hand.

I do think that Floyd will eventually start to time Pacquiao, but I think that will take a few rounds to do, so I think Pacquiao will have banked a decent margin on Floyd before this happens, hence it will be very close.

I disagree, when you look at their resumes in detail including when they chose to fight certain fighters then they are very similar, i wouldnt say 1 has the better resume.

Paquiao seems to get alot of credit for beating the exact same fighters Floyd foight except Paquiao fought them coming off losses.

On top of that Paquiao was knocking out fighters way bigger than him during a period of being accused of roiding, instead of dispelling the myth by taking a test he refused. Compare that to recently where he couldnt knock out a 140lb fighter despite knocking him down 6 times.

He gets credit but really it's widely considered that his best wins are against Barrera (twice), Morales (twice), Marquez (twice) and then Cotto (who he fought before Floyd) did.

In terms of the next point, I think that's a little bit of a lazy reading, you really need to consider it on a fight by fight basis. I think the Cotto stoppage was an exceptional performance but gave people a feeling he was some sort of monster who could blast fully fledged welterweights out of there, when really Pacquiao's power, in terms of it's truly devastating effect, peaked at around 135lbs - 140lbs.

His last stoppage was against Cotto since then, consider his opponents:

Margarito - Massive welterweight and got his face brutally beaten throughout the fight

Clottey - very big welterweight, never been stopped

Mosley - had one of the best chins pound for pound in the past couple of decades, Pacquiao still drops him

Marquez - Great powers of recovery, great chin, never been stopped

Bradley - see Marquez

Rios - Iron chin

Algieri - Runs for the entire fight, gets dropped like 6 times, one of the knock downs he got a count that was longer than 10

So yeah, it's clear that his power isn't as much against welterweights, that's really evident, but he can still punch at the weight and I think the steroid accusation just doesn't hold. Besides, roids really aren't going to make you punch with more power, power is not something you can really train for, it's something that, for the most part, you're born with.

He fought a drained Cotto at a catchweight and Cotto admitted that he wasnt 100% due to the weight.

Floyd fought him at his own weight and took random drug testing.

Paq fought Mosley coming off a loss, Marquez beat Paq more than once imo.

Rios and Alegrie are bums.

I hold the Margarito victory highly though even if i do think Paq was on roids at that point in his career.

I think both fighters hold similar resumes and one cannot be better than the others.

[Dr_Pangloss]

 

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of people have said it already in the thread back when the fight was announced.

Manny hasn't knocked anybody out since 2009, Floyd hasn't had a clean KO since 2007 so I'm sticking by my prediction, Mayweather on points, possibly wide. He'll have the judges on his side (he might not need them) but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things as the fight is at least five years past it's sell by date.

Glad it's happening obviously, but they should have met somewhere between 2007 and 2010 and whatever happens it won't settle the debate about who was the better fighter at their peak. IMO that was Pacquiao.

How can Paquiao have been better at his peak when Mayweather is unbeaten amd never been knocked down?

Much greater fighters than Mayweather have been beaten and knocked down. Pacquiao undoubtedly has the better resume than Mayweather, that's for sure.

I see this as a toss up fight, ultimately I think Mayweather will win but it will be very close, I fail to see how it'll be wide, unless I'm missing something Pacquiao is a good deal better offensively than anyone Floyd has ever fought. His speed and angles will cause a lot of problems. I don't doubt for a minute that Pacquiao can win if the strategy is right and Floyd this time, unlike against all the others, doesn't quite adjust quick enough.

Mayweather will have to adapt and his usual tools will, IMO, not be as effective, by that I mean the 'Michigan half guard' (what the kids call the 'shoulder roll') will not be as effective against southpaws as orthodox fighters. Southpaws with speed in the past have had some success landing the left hand on Floyd (Judah and Corley). Also, left hand dominant orthodox fighters, have had success with jabs and left hands thrown from the orthodox stance (Cotto and De La Hoya). I don't think Floyd defends the straight left that well, or at least not as well as he defends a straight right hand.

I do think that Floyd will eventually start to time Pacquiao, but I think that will take a few rounds to do, so I think Pacquiao will have banked a decent margin on Floyd before this happens, hence it will be very close.

I disagree, when you look at their resumes in detail including when they chose to fight certain fighters then they are very similar, i wouldnt say 1 has the better resume.

Paquiao seems to get alot of credit for beating the exact same fighters Floyd foight except Paquiao fought them coming off losses.

On top of that Paquiao was knocking out fighters way bigger than him during a period of being accused of roiding, instead of dispelling the myth by taking a test he refused. Compare that to recently where he couldnt knock out a 140lb fighter despite knocking him down 6 times.

He gets credit but really it's widely considered that his best wins are against Barrera (twice), Morales (twice), Marquez (twice) and then Cotto (who he fought before Floyd) did.

In terms of the next point, I think that's a little bit of a lazy reading, you really need to consider it on a fight by fight basis. I think the Cotto stoppage was an exceptional performance but gave people a feeling he was some sort of monster who could blast fully fledged welterweights out of there, when really Pacquiao's power, in terms of it's truly devastating effect, peaked at around 135lbs - 140lbs.

His last stoppage was against Cotto since then, consider his opponents:

Margarito - Massive welterweight and got his face brutally beaten throughout the fight

Clottey - very big welterweight, never been stopped

Mosley - had one of the best chins pound for pound in the past couple of decades, Pacquiao still drops him

Marquez - Great powers of recovery, great chin, never been stopped

Bradley - see Marquez

Rios - Iron chin

Algieri - Runs for the entire fight, gets dropped like 6 times, one of the knock downs he got a count that was longer than 10

So yeah, it's clear that his power isn't as much against welterweights, that's really evident, but he can still punch at the weight and I think the steroid accusation just doesn't hold. Besides, roids really aren't going to make you punch with more power, power is not something you can really train for, it's something that, for the most part, you're born with.

He fought a drained Cotto at a catchweight and Cotto admitted that he wasnt 100% due to the weight.

Floyd fought him at his own weight and took random drug testing.

Paq fought Mosley coming off a loss, Marquez beat Paq more than once imo.

Rios and Alegrie are bums.

I hold the Margarito victory highly though even if i do think Paq was on roids at that point in his career.

I think both fighters hold similar resumes and one cannot be better than the others.

 

 

I really don't get what you're talking about, all I was demonstrating is that the opponents Pacquiao fought since Cotto are hard to knockout! LOL, but to take the points up anyway.

 

(1) The fight took place at 145lbs only 2lbs below what was Cotto's then weight of 147lbs. He was hardly a deadman walking and besides, if you sign a contract for a specified weight you have no complaints, and this is exactly the view Cotto has since took in the Martinez and Geale fights (both at catchweights). It doesn't really discredit the win much as far as I'm concerned or explain why Cotto was stopped. Cotto started that fight very well and was able at times to pin Pacquiao against the ropes and land hard shots. It was until round 4, where Pacquiao nailed him with sort of hook/uppercut which dropped him, that the fight turned and Cotto was in survival mode.

 

(2)  The point is just that Mosley has always shown an iron chin but Pacquiao still dropped him and badly hurt him, losing prior to that fight didn't affect his ability to take a punch at all.

 

(3) Rios maybe a bum but he still has an iron chin and has never been stopped, Algieri is not really a 'bum' more of a B- level guy, the only point with him is that he was dropped 6 times and had a very slow count to on one of the knockdowns. He went through fire against Provodnikov, getting dropped twice but survived and won, so it's fair to say that he is durable and recovers quickly, so again, not easy to stop. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Dr_Pangloss

[Brumerican]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn7xO6fkaA&app=desktop

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

dafuq.