The "Witton Lane" Boxing Chat Thread

[villa4europe]

de gale wasnt overly impressive, looked like he didnt know how to finish him so he did the old dancing bollocks instead

 

ricky burns again is getting the "this isnt ricky burns, he's usually much better than this" treatment, think this is only the 3rd time ive seen him and I've heard that in all 3 fights

[The_Rev]

De Gale did look below par again, disappointed in his opponent who quit on his knee with five seconds to go in the 11th.  A fighter with a heart would have tried to take that to points even if he was going to lose on points. A fighter with balls would have certainly seen it to the end of the round. 

 

Didn't catch Ricky Burns, I've lost interest in him in the last year or so. He is clearly a fighter in decline and there was probably an element of truth in the post fight comments about how Ricky Burns is normally better than this.  The question is that is the old Ricky Burns coming back? The answer in that situation is normally no. I think he will quietly slip away from world level within two or three fights, he will maybe have a gimme at home in front of a bum so he can look good in front of the fans again and then maybe another big payday against somebody coming up to world level who wants Burns name on their record. I can't really see where he goes from there. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

The 'old' Ricky Burns never was any good, this version appears to have lost some reflexes, he has, for a very limited boxer, had success in an age where there are four world titles for grabs per division. I'm fed up of idiots like Jim Watt making excuses for him.

 

Anyway, as I pointed out earlier, Salido was a huge live underdog against Lomachenko and he delivered on that. Lomachenko had a huge wake up call, this was always a terrible fight for him not only because of Salido's style and experience but also his size, Salido had an 11 pound weight advantage over him on the night. Salido did a great job on the inside, exploiting Lomachenko's relatively weak inside game, and hit Lomachenko with multiple low blows and hip shots, which slowed him down. Terrible reffing by the awful Lawerance Cole by the way.

 

Lomachenko came on strong in the last round and almost stopped Salido but ultimately wasn't enough. He really paid for not investing to Saldio's body throughout the fight, he really should have done that, rather than only paying attention in the last round, where ironically it was a body shot which had Salido out on his feet.

 

I also felt that Lomachenko was worried about the pacing of the fight, having never gone 12 rounds he was certainly worried about gassing late on. Again, if he would have had more pro fights under his belt this would not have been a problem. Salido is pretty much designed to go the distance and has never been stopped early, so again this underscores what a bad fight it was for Lomachenko, but I guess in someways the monster set of balls the bloke has.

 

Lomachenko did at least show his footwork is exceptional and so is his hand speed and accuracy, he also showed a chin, but really needs to work on throwing to the body more and his inside game. Since this was a close fight and a split decision loss he can definitely bounce back with the excuse that he bit off more than he can chew for his second pro fight. He now needs to take some easier fights in order to re-tool, I'm talking a good 6 fights, before he can think about a world title shot again.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Dr_Pangloss

[The_Rev]

Reading a couple of forums it seems there is huge sympathy for Lomachenko because of the disparity in weight. It sounds almost as if he can write this one off with very little penalty to his reputation. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

Not really something that can be completely written off insofar as Salido was able to have a lot of success on the inside, and perhaps showed naivety on behalf of Lomachenko in terms of him not being willing to mix it up, i.e. he was getting nailed with low blows all fight but refused to throw any back. The penalty is short term, since Salido was a 4 to 1 underdog, Lomachenko was excepted to destroy him, and become a pound for pound star within his first 10 pro fights.

 

In the long term this fight will do him good as long as he retools properly. The weight disparity was huge, but that does make me wonder how he'd cope against the other champions. Mikey Garcia is a very big featherweight who rehydrates in the 140s, Johnny Gonzalez is also big and rehydrates to the high 130s/ low 140s. That said, with a little more experience I feel he would have dealt with Salido, with a better body attack early on and better ability to know how to pace the fight he could well have had Salido out of there.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Dr_Pangloss

[dont_do_it_doug.]

11lbs is a LOT to make up unless you're at the very very top end skill wise, especially when your at the lower weights. I've put on 11lbs or so over the last year up to 12st 3lbs, I'm much stronger, and obviously feel a lot sturdier to boot.

Maybe of he wants to stick around at that weight he's going to need to bulk up a little?

[Dr_Pangloss]

11lbs is a LOT to make up unless you're at the very very top end skill wise, especially when your at the lower weights. I've put on 11lbs or so over the last year up to 12st 3lbs, I'm much stronger, and obviously feel a lot sturdier to boot.

Maybe of he wants to stick around at that weight he's going to need to bulk up a little?

That doesn't make much sense, if he bulked up any more he wouldn't be able to make weight, unless he wants to risk killing himself to make weight.

 

Some fighters are able to dehydrate themselves significantly and then put it back on, and not be that badly affected, others simply can't do it, it's an enormous risk. There might be an argument for Lomachenko to drop down to super bantamweight but again, it's a question as to whether he can make that weight class, which is about 122lbs.

 

Featherweight seems have a handful of freaks that rehydrate 15-20lbs above the initial weight limit, although that said I don't think Salido's weight was the defining factor, the low blows did more damage and crucially, the biggest factor of all, was Lomachenko's lack of experience, I'm certain Lomachenko would have won that fight if he would have had maybe 5 or 6 more pro fights.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Dr_Pangloss

[ArteSuave]

Everyone can cut a significant amount of weight IMO. Obviously there's some variation but the main factor is cutting weight properly. Some of the nonsensical 'tricks' that get used end up making fighters dehydrated badly for days before their fight.

[Dr_Pangloss]

I'm of the view that it's very bad to enter training camp significantly overweight. I think it's better to not have to shed much at all, mainly because whilst you're worrying about fighting your opponent and working on tactics in the gym, you also have to worry about losing weight, the guy who doesn't have to lose much doesn't have to worry about that and is thus focusing all his attention on his opponent and getting sharp.

 

For me it's not entirely clear that the guy who rehydrates the highest is more likely to win, especially at world level. I actually don't think it's true. Lomachenko losing last night wasn't down to weight disadvantage IMO, that's a smoke screen.

[ArteSuave]

I'm of the view that it's very bad to enter training camp significantly overweight.

I entirely agree. Outrageous overeating seems to gain fans but as far as performance and career longevity are concerned it is unadulterated fuckwittery.

The weight cutting I was referring to was water weight and GI tract weight that can be regained post weigh in without damaging a fighter's performance. I've seen people wear sweat suits for days before a fight, heavily sodium load and even try to give themselves diarrhoea to cut weight and claim they just can't do it.

For me it's not entirely clear that the guy who rehydrates the highest is more likely to win, especially at world level.

Again I agree but if a comfortable weight advantage was possible then it would surely be an advantage worth having. The amount of money involved compared with the seeming lack of physiological understanding is astounding in some camps. I don't have a clue about what Lomachenko did or didn't do but bad weight management is a trend seen throughout combat sports.

[parisvilla]

Don't know anything about boxing. Need to book a guest: British boxer who has fought outdoors? Any suggestions welcome....

 

Thanks!

[ArteSuave]

Don't know anything about boxing. Need to book a guest: British boxer who has fought outdoors? Any suggestions welcome....

Thanks!

Kevin Mitchell got KTFO by Katsidis at Upton Park a few years ago but they had a little canopy over the ring.

Edit - I think Haye Chisora was at Upton Park as well.

Edited March 4, 2014 by ArteSuave

[The_Rev]

Bruno fought at White Hart Lane.

[Oaks]

Don't know anything about boxing. Need to book a guest: British boxer who has fought outdoors? Any suggestions welcome....

Thanks!

Kevin Mitchell got KTFO by Katsidis at Upton Park a few years ago but they had a little canopy over the ring.

Edit - I think Haye Chisora was at Upton Park as well.

Eubank, Benn and Watson all boxed outside, so has Hatton, Haye, Calzaghie and Lewis. Edited March 4, 2014 by Oaks

[leemond2008]

Well Wilder v Scott has just been on

90 seconds in and the crowd start booing so Wilder knocks him out with a left hook

Another first round knock out for him.

[The_Rev]

Danny Garcia just got the narrowest of wins over Mauricio Herrera.  Majority decision, 114-114 and 116-112 twice.  It was one of those fights which was so close I'll have to give the judges the benefit of the doubt.  Wasn't very exciting though, and I doubt Garcia will want to be anywhere near a rematch. 

[leemond2008]

Yeah on boxnation everyone was saying that he lost by 4 or 5 rounds, I don't see that at all.

The judges were never going to go against Garcia in that one because he is the champ and he was throwing the meatier punches.

You are right though he won't go any where near a rematch.

Ponce De Leon got done in the second round as well

[Dr_Pangloss]

Herrera got robbed and really showed how to beat Garcia, show Garcia angles, make him reset, stick a jab and smother him, you will make Garcia look like shit.

 

I like Garcia (mainly for knocking out Khan) but match him up against someone tricky with ring craft and he will look awful, which is why he needed a robbery to get by Theophane, and was schooled in large patches in the Morales fight.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Dr_Pangloss

[donnie]

Herrera got robbed and really showed how to beat Garcia, show Garcia angles, make him reset, stick a jab and smother him, you will make Garcia look like shit.

I like Garcia (mainly for knocking out Khan) but match him up against someone tricky with ring craft and he will look awful, which is why he needed a robbery to get by Theophane, and was schooled in large matches in the Morales fight.

I thought herrera just nicked it but I wouldnt go as far to say he was robbed. It was a close fight but wasnt a ricky burns-beltran type robbery. Like leemond said, garcia was the champion, you cant just 'nick' a world title from the champion and expect to get the win.

Kell brook's career is a bit of a farce fighting on the undercard of a tony bellew bout. Wasnt that impressed with him. Whether its porter or paulie malignelli he will struggle to beat both. Why on earth brook thinks he has earned a big money fight with amir khan ill never know.

[The_Rev]

It might have to happen given how Khan currently has few options. I assume he will observe Ramadan in July which doesn't give him much time to arrange a fight.  I'd have a bit more sympathy if he hadn't dropped the Alexander fight like a hot stone thinking he was getting Floyd.