StefanAVFC Posted June 21, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Yeah that annoys me too. The vocab nazi I am. There's another term for having an attraction to teenagers but I can't remember it. Begins with E. By the very definition of the word, there are paedophiles that arent child molesters and there are child molesters that aren't paedophiles. EDIT: ah it was ephebophile but I was wrong anyway Edited June 21, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 21, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2013 There are also sexually precocious teenagers. Doesn't excuse the abuse of being in a position of responsibility, but it should be distinguished from the coercion of unwilling victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I don't think I've suggested anywhere he's a paedo? But then it might not have been aimed at me. I also haven't suggested there was rape. She is, by definition, a child. He was in a position of authority in a school. They've had a sexual relationship and he was the adult. He is the guilty party. Sorry, but she was neeeeearly old enough, she was really pretty, she was giving me the come on, she touched me first just don't cut it at legitimising this. I'm not suggesting this is in the same bracket as some toddler killer by any stretch. it isn't. What it also isn't is ok. The sentence isn't long enough, imo. I've got to nip out now.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 21, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2013 I don't think anybody is legitimising it. Infact, the people with the argument towards a shorter sentence are saying the opposite. It's not okay, he's done wrong in so many ways but I just wouldn't class him as a child abuser. For me, that term brings up the monsters who are worthy of such a vile title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 What bit of 'child' or 'abuse' was not involved? Are you saying she wasn't a child, or that there was no abuse by her teacher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I don't mean to be all puritanical about this. I'm usually a fairly liberal sort of chap. But for me there are two things here: Firstly, I have some very limited experience around VP units. The people in there are not nice, they all have a personal reason why their case is a little bit less bad than the others. Secondly, if I had a child in school, male or female, aged 15 and 11 months and 3 weeks and I found out there was a slight little consensual sexual relationship with a teacher, male or female. I'd potentially be in for a lot longer than 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 21, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2013 As I said in my first post on the matter, by the letter of the law he is a child abuser but I don't feel things are completely as black and white as you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2013 This is what always happens. "You're not agreeing with me completely therefore you must be defending him". Which is why these are such dangerous conversations on a message board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) No, I don't need anyone to agree with me completely. You must agree with me on that. I'm just a tiny bit worried about the opinion that sex between a child and her teacher, an adult, can be nuanced. I know there is such a thing as real life and that's messy and complicated. I also know that in a nightclub with beer in your belly its not easy to tell if someone is 18. That there, the dodgy nightclub situation is your doubt and potentially unfair labelling. But it should have been fairly easy for him to check the class register during lessons to see if she was 18 or not. Surely there can't be room for nuance between a teacher and a pupil in a classroom. I'm sure nobody on here is arguing that in some certain exceptional circumstances, its ok for a teacher to **** the kids? I could be wrong. I'm open to being argued around. Edited June 21, 2013 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'm sure nobody on here is arguing that in some certain exceptional circumstances, its ok for a teacher to **** the kids?You're right, no-one is saying that. What they're saying is that it's not the same as going into a playground wearing only a trench coat and taking 3 toddlers into the bushes. Jeez it was even uncomfortable typing that sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 People aren't saying its ok, but they are saying that its less wrong than abducting a child and raping her, or forcefully abusing a child. which is why the sentence is lighter than other child abusers, or should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 It like the difference between getting a automatic gun, standing in the middle of a shopping centre and spraying bullets around to kill everyone, compared to coming home to find your wife in bed with a stranger and killing them both on impulse. Both are murder, but one is worse than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 21, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 21, 2013 If a teacher at my daughter's school had sex with her, I'd be furious with him, and want him sacked and prosecuted - whether she was 15 or 18. I'd also be furious with her. If however, she was (say) 8, I'd be a lot more than furious with him, I'd be homicidal. And not at all angry with her. See the difference? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Secondly, if I had a child in school, male or female, aged 15 and 11 months and 3 weeks and I found out there was a slight little consensual sexual relationship with a teacher, male or female. I'd potentially be in for a lot longer than 5 years. Hmmm, I have a 5 year old daughter and when the time comes for her to start engaging in relationships I'm going to be stressed for sure. But taking your example there, I'm fairly certain that I wouldn't react anywhere near like you. In fact I'd say I'm where Mike is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 There is a difference and to bring it back to the start of the discussion, 5 years and a bit for this chap is fair, and if the girl was younger I'd expect a longer sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I do genuienly understand and agree that all the crimes mentioned above are not anywhere near the same. I'm with you on that. But for me, a child and her teacher in a sexual relationship is abuse. If somebody has a word that describes it other than abuse, bring it on. I'm clearly in a minority, but that's ok. It's an interesting discussion point. Problem is, I now have to do a mixed grill before a trip up that London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted June 21, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2013 No-one's disagreeing here. You've just said the crimes 'are not anywhere near the same'. That's all we've been trying to say all along. It's all abuse. Different levels of it and different levels of abusing trust, but it's all abuse and all abuses of trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 yeah, I think I may have slipped into pedantry over a word definition still think he should have got longer though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) I don't think I've suggested anywhere he's a paedo? But then it might not have been aimed at me. I also haven't suggested there was rape. She is, by definition, a child. He was in a position of authority in a school. They've had a sexual relationship and he was the adult. He is the guilty party. Sorry, but she was neeeeearly old enough, she was really pretty, she was giving me the come on, she touched me first just don't cut it at legitimising this. I'm not suggesting this is in the same bracket as some toddler killer by any stretch. it isn't. What it also isn't is ok. The sentence isn't long enough, imo. I've got to nip out now.... Only thing I'd put is that at 15 she is hardly a child , sure he should have known better and he abused his position of trust but charges of abduction seem rather heavy handed , she went on her own at the end of the day He could be a sexual predator but equally he could finish his stretch ,come out of prison and enter a relationship with her , even marry her Bill Wyman slept with Mandy Smith when she was 14 and he was 48 ... And then married her ... So it can happen... Even if they did divorce in te long run Edited June 21, 2013 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 People who abuse Godwins. Yeah I know, wrong thread Godwins is the inappropriate use of the nazis in a discussion. As VW were actually formed by the Nazis and it's the reason Ajax won't drive one, this is a fairly appropriate reference to them. Erm no it isn't. "As an online discussion grows further the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1" Godwin's law makes no mention of appropriateness. Only that such references cannot be made deliberately to invoke the law. You'd have to ask VillaAjax whether that was his intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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