Stevo985 Posted June 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2013 I bought mine for £45 I think you got ripped off. Yeah I was trolling. It was £15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) I'm not absolutely sure of the exact allowance you are allowed per week before income affects your benefit but it is a low amount. Her husband's wage is in and around £1500 per month plus which would have taken her household income over and above the allowed allowance.How do you know his income is £1500 (approx.)?Unless it is worked out differently in NI, the same principle applies as in the rest of the UK that housing benefit would be reduced by 65% of the excess income (that is the total relevant net household income minus the applicable amount and any earnings disregard). It doesn't meant that once a household receives an income above the applicable amount (which is what I guess you are meaning by allowance), they no longer are eligible for housing benefit. It is slightly different for assets (I think above £16k means no eligibility and above £6k it is reduced by a certain amount per level of assets/savings).I know that she didn't declare a change in her circumstances because the Housing Executive weren't even aware that she was living with someone. I know this because the neighbour who lives on the other side of her also went to the Housing Executive to complain. This neighbour during the complaint interview dropped it into the conversation that the tenant was living with someone and the Housing Executive Officer replied by stating that they were under the impression that their tenant was living on her own.Fair enough but you didn't make that clear before.Under the present circumstances with the added income from her husband if she had declared it, they wouldn't get Housing Benefit and it certainly would have affected her other benefits as well.As explained above, the first part might not necessarily be true, the latter most certainly.In Northern Ireland you have the Housing Executive, Council and PSNI (Police). They meet on a regular basis and those meetings are referred to as 'Tri Partied' meetings. These meetings are held for the sole purpose of discussing anti social behaviour and to collate information between the three organisations. My case has been at the forefront of those discussions as it has been a long running dispute over a period of four years and it is in the remit of the Neighbourhood Police to give feedback to those people who are involved within each cased discussed.Obviously there are only certain things the Police can tell you and as i had given the head of our local neighbourhood policing a copy of my troublesome neighbour's Wedding Certificate he in turn asked the Housing Executive representative what they were doing about it. The reply was 'we are looking at it.'If you then keep in mind that the Housing Executive have had this document from the start of February and have been 'looking at it' for nearly four months now the Police Officer got the distinct impression that the Housing Executive were doing nothing more than than sitting on it.Do you mean tripartite?Anyway, as you acknowledge, there is a limit to the amount of information that can be given to you and whilst I sympathize with your predicament and agree that it sounds like your local branch of the housing executive are pretty useless, I think your understanding of some of the other things still seems incorrect.As far as investigations of potential fraudulent benefit claims, I don't have any first hand knowledge (fortunately) but I think there's someone on VT who has posted about that kind of thing (from the enforcement angle) and I seem to remember something about thresholds for prosecutions. I also would guess that these kinds of investigations aren't speedy either.He (Police Officer) has now advised me to go to the Minister for Social Development (MP) and present my case to him as neither i or the Police Officer concerned have any faith that the Housing Executive want to do anything as in general our local branch of the Housing Executive have been less than pro active in other cases similar to mine.Sounds like the best plan if you believe that your dispute has not been correctly dealt with.Is there not an option to take the Housing Executive to court? Edited June 1, 2013 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) I bought mine for £45 I think you got ripped off. Yeah I was trolling. It was £15 I don't believe you EDIT: I'm glad some of the people from on topic aren't coming to the training this month. I don't know if I'd be able to keep a straight face. Edited June 1, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2013 I don't believe that you don't believe me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2013 I don't believe that you don't believe I don't believe you YOUR MOVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2013 Checkmate. Well played, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2013 Checkmate. Well played, sir. You made a wise decision son. I wasn't backing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 1, 2013 I didn't say anything. I know I can be an argumentative sod, but this time I literally said nothing. There is no 'fight'. Smetrov called me a baby out of the blue then told me to fight him. Proper confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I don't believe that you don't believe I don't believe you YOUR MOVE His move what? Teacher my arse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted June 2, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 2, 2013 I just bought this. I'm eager and potentially amused to hear VT's opinion on it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I'm not absolutely sure of the exact allowance you are allowed per week before income affects your benefit but it is a low amount. Her husband's wage is in and around £1500 per month plus which would have taken her household income over and above the allowed allowance. How do you know his income is £1500 (approx.)? Unless it is worked out differently in NI, the same principle applies as in the rest of the UK that housing benefit would be reduced by 65% of the excess income (that is the total relevant net household income minus the applicable amount and any earnings disregard). It doesn't meant that once a household receives an income above the applicable amount (which is what I guess you are meaning by allowance), they no longer are eligible for housing benefit. It is slightly different for assets (I think above £16k means no eligibility and above £6k it is reduced by a certain amount per level of assets/savings). I know that she didn't declare a change in her circumstances because the Housing Executive weren't even aware that she was living with someone. I know this because the neighbour who lives on the other side of her also went to the Housing Executive to complain. This neighbour during the complaint interview dropped it into the conversation that the tenant was living with someone and the Housing Executive Officer replied by stating that they were under the impression that their tenant was living on her own. Fair enough but you didn't make that clear before. Under the present circumstances with the added income from her husband if she had declared it, they wouldn't get Housing Benefit and it certainly would have affected her other benefits as well. As explained above, the first part might not necessarily be true, the latter most certainly. In Northern Ireland you have the Housing Executive, Council and PSNI (Police). They meet on a regular basis and those meetings are referred to as 'Tri Partied' meetings. These meetings are held for the sole purpose of discussing anti social behaviour and to collate information between the three organisations. My case has been at the forefront of those discussions as it has been a long running dispute over a period of four years and it is in the remit of the Neighbourhood Police to give feedback to those people who are involved within each cased discussed. Obviously there are only certain things the Police can tell you and as i had given the head of our local neighbourhood policing a copy of my troublesome neighbour's Wedding Certificate he in turn asked the Housing Executive representative what they were doing about it. The reply was 'we are looking at it.' If you then keep in mind that the Housing Executive have had this document from the start of February and have been 'looking at it' for nearly four months now the Police Officer got the distinct impression that the Housing Executive were doing nothing more than than sitting on it. Do you mean tripartite? Anyway, as you acknowledge, there is a limit to the amount of information that can be given to you and whilst I sympathize with your predicament and agree that it sounds like your local branch of the housing executive are pretty useless, I think your understanding of some of the other things still seems incorrect. As far as investigations of potential fraudulent benefit claims, I don't have any first hand knowledge (fortunately) but I think there's someone on VT who has posted about that kind of thing (from the enforcement angle) and I seem to remember something about thresholds for prosecutions. I also would guess that these kinds of investigations aren't speedy either. He (Police Officer) has now advised me to go to the Minister for Social Development (MP) and present my case to him as neither i or the Police Officer concerned have any faith that the Housing Executive want to do anything as in general our local branch of the Housing Executive have been less than pro active in other cases similar to mine. Sounds like the best plan if you believe that your dispute has not been correctly dealt with. Is there not an option to take the Housing Executive to court? I have found out from another person who is in the same line of work what her husband's income would be. The fact remains though snowychap that she hasn't declared that she is living with someone and therefore most certainly she wouldn't have declared her marriage or her husband's extra income which even by your very helpful detail on Housing Benefit would still leave her open to an accusation of benefit fraud. Yep fully agree that most type of investigations aren't 'speedy' but four months to find out whether she has declared that she is living with someone with extra income coming into the household? This would have been stated in her social security file and should be easily accessible for the Housing Executive to check. I have spoken with my solicitor concerning the option of taking the Housing Executive to court. This is the option that i very much want to proceed with as they have continually failed to follow their own policies on anti social behaviour. However the difficulty is that there were two cases in England whereby councils were brought to court for reasons similar to my own case and unfortunately on both occasions the judge ruled that the council were not responsible for their tenants behaviour. It has set a presedent which is very hard to overcome. This is what your councils in England and the Housing Executive in Northern Ireland are hiding behind and why they tend to have a very arrogant attitude when dealing with complaints from home owners concerning their own tenants. Its a ridiculous ruling to suggest that any landlord isn't responsible for their tenant! When you think about it though, private tenants are given warnings and then evicted with more ease that those with council tenancies which in most cases can take four years and upwards to secure evictions. My case might be slightly different in that i might be able to take the Housing Executive to court for maladministration or certainly to approach The Northern Ireland Ombudsman who deals with governmental institutions that don't follow their own policies. There is another difficulty in that it has been announced by the new assembly in Northern Ireland that the Housing Executive is to be disbanded within the next two years and this is another reason why both the Police Officer and i feel that the Housing Executive are just sitting on my case without doing anything. This decision has been taken by the Housing Minister due to alleged rumblings about malpractice within the Housing Executive concerning contracting work to their own properties. While this brought a very warm smirk to my face, ultimately when the Housing Executive are disbanded, i am going to be left with the same tenant who i have proven to be more than problematic in a court of law which the Housing Executive have just ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) I have spoken with my solicitor concerning the option of taking the Housing Executive to court. This is the option that i very much want to proceed with as they have continually failed to follow their own policies on anti social behaviour. However the difficulty is that there were two cases in England whereby councils were brought to court for reasons similar to my own case and unfortunately on both occasions the judge ruled that the council were not responsible for their tenants behaviour. It has set a presedent which is very hard to overcome. This is what your councils in England and the Housing Executive in Northern Ireland are hiding behind and why they tend to have a very arrogant attitude when dealing with complaints from home owners concerning their own tenants. Its a ridiculous ruling to suggest that any landlord isn't responsible for their tenant!It doesn't seem ridiculous. Are private landlords responsible for the behaviour of their tenants?It would appear that in some strict circumstances (like as a condition of an HMO licence) they can be held responsible but that's still only up to a point.I guess there's an argument that says that a landlord could be viewed as adopting the responsibility for the behaviour if they know that it is going on and, by failing to act to stop it (if that is feasible), allow it to continue but that's going to have to be some argument, I'd have thought.When you think about it though, private tenants are given warnings and then evicted with more ease that those with council tenancies which in most cases can take four years and upwards to secure evictions.I'm not sure what relevance that has (unless you believe that all private landlords make themselves concerned about the behaviour of their tenants - other than paying the rent and not damaging the property). Edited June 2, 2013 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) If you are living beside a rented property whether its in the private sector or council rental who do you approach when the tenant is misbehaving? Who provides the accommodation and who supplies the rules and conditions in which the tenant must abide by and who is paid to provide the property? So it's the landlord is it not and if the tenant has breached the tenancy agreement then it must be the responsibility of the landlord to do something about it. It is therefore ridiculous to suggest that the landlord has no responsibility in the matter. Concerning your last paragraph the point I'm making is that it should not take four years plus to evict a council tenant who is misbehaving while a private tenant can be evicted within a month's notice for behaving in exactly the same way and I know this from two recent examples in my town whereby neighbours approached the landlord of two properties where the tenants were misbehaving, I.e excessive noise and abuse. Both those tenants were subsequently served notice and evicted. Edited June 2, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) Who provides the accommodation and who supplies the rules and conditions in which the tenant must abide by and who is paid to provide the property? What? So it's the landlord is it not and if the tenant has breached the tenancy agreement then it must be the responsibility of the landlord to do something about it. The tenancy has absolutely nothing to do with you. The tenant is responsible for their behaviour and if this causes you (or anyone else) a nuisance. The landlord (or for that matter the tenant's doctor or employer or partner) cannot be held responsible for that nuisance unless there is something to say that they have adopted the responsibility for that nuisance (e.g. they have authorized it or know that the purpose of use of the land will cause nuisance). It is therefore ridiculous to suggest that the landlord has no responsibility in the matter. This seems to indicate that you aren't understanding things. You said 'Its a ridiculous ruling to suggest that any landlord isn't responsible for their tenant!' - that isn't the same as having 'no responsibility in the matter'. They may well adopt some responsibility by not acting in a reasonable manner to prevent the nuisance (if that is possible) but they are not 'responsible for their tenant'. Edit: Anyway, I'm out on this one as I think we'll just end up going round in circles. Edited June 2, 2013 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) The tenancy has everything to do with me if the tenant is committing acts of anti social behaviour which is making my life a misery and the landlord refuses to follow their own anti social behaviour charter. This is a point which you seemingly fail to understand. It is the responsibility of the landlord to deal with the problem and why councils all over Great Britain do evict tenants if they misbehave. They are and should be bound by their own rules of tenancy and they should not be given the choice to ignore them when it suits. Unfortunately in my case even though the Housing Executive have been given four years of evidence including audio and two court orders they have failed to abide by their own anti social behavioural charter and i'm afraid it is as simple as that. Edited June 2, 2013 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) Edit: So, you believe that other people's tenancies (other than those policies that are a matter of public record) are your business; that landlords are responsible for their tenants' behaviour (logically this would also make the tenant responsible for the landlords' behaviour if that adversely affected someone else, surely?); that there should be some sort of inalienable compulsion to enforce terms and conditions of a tenancy, and the remedies sought/applied should be the ones demanded by a third party? Whilst I can see that a prolonged period as the object of someone's appalling behaviour can drive someone to the point of taking a barmy stance, I can't agree with it. Edited June 2, 2013 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out Morpheus and Snowychap are actually neighbours.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 2, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 2, 2013 Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out Morpheus and Snowychap are actually neighbours.... Or aunt and nephew... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Or aunt and nephew...I think that's rather out of order, Stevo.I am no more responsible for Morpheus's (claimed) incest than his landlord so I'd prefer not to be associated with it even if it just an attempt at being amusing, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 2, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted June 2, 2013 Not sure if serious. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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