Popular Post mjmooney Posted June 5, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I don't think you understand 'opinion', it really doesn't have to be backed up with factual evidence. And there, ladies and gentlemen, we have the problem. 8 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted June 5, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 5, 2022 So close to self awareness you can almost reach out and touch it. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 16 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I don't think you understand 'opinion', it really doesn't have to be backed up with factual evidence. I hate West Ham, there maybe evidence as to why I do, but I don't have to find it to justify it to you, do I?? But sometimes it does need to be backed up. In this case it's West Ham and plain for all to see, so that's enough evidence for me there. However, if you state something like Stop and Search works and are then provided with evidence that it doesn't, you don't offer any evidence to the contrary. You just continue to state your belief that it works, based on blind faith and your copper mate telling you it does? I'm not really sure why you think it works. Nobody is sure why you do because you haven't provided any sort of info to back it up. Look at the maps @Xann posted a page or so back. There is quite a distinct correlation between poverty and violent crime in London. I would imagine that would be the case for any city/country in the world. Why not just look at countries who have low rates of such crimes and just implement similar policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) Scotland were known to be one of the best for cutting knife crime. They did it by treating it like a disease, dealing with the causes rather then the symptoms, which I believe in. Little be known though, they vastly increased stop and search and increased sentences for carrying, which worked. There is my 'back up' for carrying on with stop and search that you some so desperately wanted. Edited June 5, 2022 by foreveryoung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Gun crime levels are much higher globally among people with American accents. It’s important to stop and think *why* that is. Is the accent the causal factor or does it correlate with something else that might be the causal factor? In fairness to the police, that can work in the other direction and be a justification for slightly higher levels of stop & search among certain communities, if they’re more likely to be living in areas where knife crime is higher. But the problem is if you’ve ever been out with black friends in a big city you’ll have seen how much harder they find it to get taxis, get into clubs / bars / restaurants, and how they do actually get stopped by the police more often. Regardless of what they’re wearing, regardless of how they’re behaving. That isn’t fair. It’s obviously a complicated issue, but it needs to be handled by people who’s main goal is reducing crime and improving communities while respecting people’s rights - not by bigots with an axe to grind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2022 Change of subject. Just had a routine Facebook comment of mine 'liked' by a person whom I don't know. Nothing unusual about that, it's a common occurrence on FB. Then I noticed that this person and I have three mutual friends. Still not particularly unusual. But when I checked who the three friends were, I was quite surprised - I know them all (in real life, not just on social media), but in completely different contexts. One is a musician, one a running club member, and one an ex-work colleague. I'm pretty sure they don't know each other at all. It's all a bit Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, and I suppose that's the nature of interaction that social media reveals, but it still intrigues me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Quote How Scotland stemmed the tide of knife crime BBC More about addressing social issues than policing policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 5 hours ago, chrisp65 said: From my own personal lived experience as a white person that lived in the wrong post code, the police can be a substantial part of the problem. They can be poorly trained, poorly motivated, subject to their own bias. I mean, c’mon, look at the state of The Met from top to bottom. We need the police, we need more police. Better educated, better trained, fitter, and more responsive to people wanting local issues sorted. Oh, and if you’ve got nothing to hide, if you’re innocent and want to help prevent murders, perhaps you should accept random searches of your nice house on your nice street? With a quick police check of your internet history. And your tax affairs. If it helps society. I mean, we all had our tax checked regularly and we all had our internets checked regularly, then there would be more tax revenue for more police and less time needed tracking down nonces. It would be a virtuous circle, if we just accepted random house and data sweeps. Nothing to fear if you’re innocent. I really like your final paragraph. Amazing how people are willing to support these measures when they know full well it will rarely, if ever, impact them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 It does seem that you can indeed fool some of the people all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, Xann said: It does seem that you can indeed fool some of the people all of the time. And that all of the time some people are fools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 54 minutes ago, Xann said: It does seem that you can indeed fool some of the people all of the time. I think Abraham Lincoln said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 6 hours ago, foreveryoung said: I don't think you understand 'opinion', it really doesn't have to be backed up with factual evidence. Ahhhhh. Absolutely marvellous. Just…. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2022 Suddenly the Tories still being in power makes a bit more sense 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Davkaus said: I think you're slightly missing the point of most of the outrage, mate. Very few people object to suspects being stopped and searched when there is a reasonable suspicion of a specific offence. The problem that most people object to is the power (section 60) to stop anyone that they like, with no suspicion. This is the power that's so frequently abused. If you think that's wrong, it sounds like we're in agreement We agree then mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Scotland Violence Reduction Unit The VRU was set up in Scotland to address the country’s terrible violence record. It involves an holistic approach involving education, health and policing. Stop and search in relation to knife crime has been redirected based on a more scientific, data driven approach together with intelligence gathered to break up known gangs. Rather than rely on the hunches of Police. SCCJR Scottish Centre For Crime & Justice Research I can’t copy n paste the graphs from this report unfortunately. But my interpretation of the graphs from page 40 onward suggest the amount of crime wasn’t impacted by the amount of stop and search. Violent crime appears to have gone down at the same time as stop n search has been scaled down. The report summary: Quote 1. People’s direct experience of stop and search and its impact on their perceptions of the police People’s direct experiences of stop and search vary from acceptance or resignaon, to embarrassment and anger. The impact on people’s percepons of the police is likely to be influenced by the quality of stop and search encounters 2. Public perceptions of the legitimacy and effectiveness of stop and search There is in-principle support for stop and search, providing the tacc is used fairly and effecvely. Public trust and confidence in the police is primarily based on being treated fairly, with respect, and being given a good reason for the stop. 3. The effectiveness of stop and search in reducing and/or preventing crime The effecveness of stop and search remains unclear, principally due to definional and methodological factors, including a lack of clarity as to how the tacc should be measured. This finding is striking, given that research on the effecveness of stop and search, and similar intervenons dates back several decades. 4. The impact of training and supervision of police officers engaged in stop and search There is surprisingly lile research available on officer training, in relaon to stop and search, or policing more broadly. 5. How stop and search in Scotland compares with the use of similar tactics in other jurisdictions. Whilst stop and search powers are used in many parts of the world, by police officers and other agencies such as border officials, there is negligible systemac comparave research which directly compares pracce and experiences in different jurisdicons. There would be immense value in developing comparave research in this area. 6. The relative effectiveness of using stop and search to reduce and prevent crime compared with other policing approaches. There appears to be no exisng research assessing the effecveness of stop and search, directly compared to other ways of ‘doing’ policing. In part, this can be aributed to the fact that the effecveness of stop and search, outwith detecon, is difficult to pin down. So it looks (to me) like it wasn’t a ramping up of Stop and Search in Scotland. It was (possibly) more intelligence lead stop and search combined with greater awareness, a health campaign and a jobs drive. I guess more community policing for the community, more community initiatives and awareness in schools and local health campaigns along with a drive to improve job prospects can lead to less violent crime. It’s rarely the quick fix of just being harder. Although that does sound nicer and easier. Nicer and easier and impacting someone else is always a very tempting offer. Not sure simply ramping up stop and search does the same thing. But a fascinating read. I needed calming down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So it looks (to me) like it wasn’t a ramping up of Stop and Search in Scotland. It was (possibly) more intelligence lead stop and search combined with greater awareness, a health campaign and a jobs drive. I guess more community policing for the community, more community initiatives and awareness in schools and local health campaigns along with a drive to improve job prospects can lead to less violent crime. It’s rarely the quick fix of just being harder. Although that does sound nicer and easier. Nicer and easier and impacting someone else is always a very tempting offer. Not sure simply ramping up stop and search does the same thing. But a fascinating read. I needed calming down. Who would have thought it? Without sounding like a sanctimonious old shit (which I probably will) I've been fortunate to live and work in different countries. I've also travelled to a lot more different countries and cultures (no great difference between me and a lot of other privileged folks.) But when people asked me what I've learned, it's this: Folks everywhere want two basic things.Safety for themselves and their family. And a job to earn to provide and for self respect. Asia, Europe, South America, North America, Black, White, whatever the color of people's skin. Safety and gaining self respect with the opportunity to earn a little to pay for stuff. All the other stuff we argue about is essentially codswallop. No sure why I felt the need to post that specifically here but there you go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 At last all of europe and the uk will all have the same cable for electronic devices like phones tablets and even laptops. About time. Its so frustrating having so many different cable/charging types when travelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted June 7, 2022 Administrator Share Posted June 7, 2022 38 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: At last all of europe and the uk will all have the same cable for electronic devices like phones tablets and even laptops. About time. Its so frustrating having so many different cable/charging types when travelling I own at least 5 different kinds of USB type-C cable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 GB isn’t covered by this EU legislation, we could end up with different chargers to the rest of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, limpid said: I own at least 5 different kinds of USB type-C cable. Drop that on a dating site. Spoiler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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