Thomas Tuchel - England Manager

[Davkaus]

I've only just seen that he doesn't start until January so we're letting Carsley stay on for next month's games, that's very odd.

[oishiiniku_uk]

A lot of credible journalists, who write for decent outlets, are going very heavy on the 'England manager should be English!' point. 'Southgate built something special and distinctly English' (whatever the hell that means) 'this would be a betrayal of everything he achieved!' etc. If the shortlist of available English candidates was Carsley and Potter (and who else who's not currently in a job would even be considered?) then surely the only option was to go for a foreign coach? What should the FA do - waste another few years of top quality talent on English coaches who'd struggle to achieve success in the Championship?

I couldn't care less where Tuchel comes from if England finally win something under his guidance. Did people celebrate the Women's Euros victory less because Sarina Wiegman is Dutch? 

[TDR V2]

7 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

A lot of credible journalists, who write for decent outlets, are going very heavy on the 'England manager should be English!' point. 'Southgate built something special and distinctly English' (whatever the hell that means) 'this would be a betrayal of everything he achieved!' etc. If the shortlist of available English candidates was Carsley and Potter (and who else who's not currently in a job would even be considered?) then surely the only option was to go for a foreign coach? What should the FA do - waste another few years of top quality talent on English coaches who'd struggle to achieve success in the Championship?

I couldn't care less where Tuchel comes from if England finally win something under his guidance. Did people celebrate the Women's Euros victory less because Sarina Wiegman is Dutch? 

If distinctly English means the ability to lose at the important moment, then yes

He achieved nothing, if achievement is winning something

I couldn't care less what nationality the coach of England is, and it is a coach we need, not a manager. 

I think Tuchel could do well, but to do well he needs to win something

[Genie]

We just have to win something, somehow. People are past caring how or in what fashion. We just need to lift a trophy.

 

[nick76]

54 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I've only just seen that he doesn't start until January so we're letting Carsley stay on for next month's games, that's very odd.

Nah, it’s probably to do with some contractual/financial clause in his Bayern contract sort of like a gardening leave clause with a large financial incentive that Tuchel doesn’t want to lose out on.  It also wouldn’t surprise me if he tells Carsley what he wants to see from the two November games….obviously unofficially.

[Davkaus]

29 minutes ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

Did people celebrate the Women's Euros victory less because Sarina Wiegman is Dutch? 

I strongly suspect that most of the kind of people who have made Tuchel the subject of their Daily Hate don't have much time for women's football.

[VillaChris]

5 hours ago, villa4europe said:

in germany its a lot more regulated and structured (the shock!) 

football in general is more about signing for a club and those clubs owning the facilities, the clubs may be linked to schools etc or share the facilities but from my experience here rather than the UK they don't have general use pitches, they don't have leisure centres in the same (and that goes for all sports) i genuinely don't have a clue if they have an over arching equivalent of sport england, its not a case of 10 like minded lads at work want a kick about go rent a pitch for an hour, and then of course all of those clubs have their coaches*

years back when it was sven and capello there were stats around how many people did their badges and england was miles behind the other major european nations, costs were blamed, i thought part of st george's was to try and fix that but thats not being seen yet

and then like you say we put a lot of emphasis on ex players whereas again using Germany as the example tuchel, klopp, nagelsmann, flick, low, streich, they're all ex footballers but not succesful ones, as much as anything else there seems to be a trend that they had injury problems in their career and did their badges and coaching around their injuries, instead in english football we get clowns like micah richards, what did jack wilshere do when his career went down the pan? sat on his money and eventually disappeared, seemingly if he was german he would be a coach by now

* it is a killer though, the over 35 vets team in my village do 2 proper bibs and cone training sessions a week and then a league game on a sunday, they cant just have a fun kick about for an hour, its still proper coaching drills, i aint got time for that shit

Wilshere actually been in charge of Arsenal Under 18s since summer 2022. Apparently applied for the Aberdeen job last summer. Ashley Cole I presume will remain in the England coaching set up so see if he goes in as a number one eventually.

I think with British coaches so many of them are poor readers of games. With Southgate his in game management was chronically bad and it's the same for Clarke at Scotland and also Rob Page at Wales. Many of us also had that criticism of DS. Too many British coaches too happy to promote the underdog mentality, concede possession and then have a side cling on for ages in second half rather than make changes to get the team on the front foot and up the pitch.

At least we're now seeing players go abroad if no clear pathway but not so coaches and the few that do go can't really communicate with the language, Moyes at Real Sociedad good example from one of the best British coaches in last twenty years.

[VillaChris]

3 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said:

happy with Tuchel as a manager, but i think international football should be about your strength as a country. It should be an English manager, not because i hate other nationalities but because else where do you draw the line. 

We should be able to produce good english players,

We should be able to produce good english coaches. 

International football should test us on the statements above.

You say that but down the years major nations have had players who've been naturalised from living in the country for a certain period of time. Germany had Cacau playing for them years ago, Italy had Amauri and Portugal had likes of Pepe and Deco who elevated their level on the pitch. Spain won Euro 2008 with Marcos Senna a regular in their midfield, he was Brazilian but acquired Spanish citizenship in 2006.

I do accept the coaching arguments but those leading nations have been playing the odd player who hasn't come through their system whereas it's not something England have ever really done. Example would've been calling up Arteta around 2010 as no Spanish caps and he was close to being eligible as had been living in the U.K for over five years.

Portugal currently have a Spanish manager in charge and Brazil wanted Ancelotti so I do think it could change for some of the leading nations in the next decade. Italy would take Guardiola if he wanted to manage them I'm sure.

[rjw63]

BBC football website must have 17 of the top 20 stories about this guy.

Overkill much?

 

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

42 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

You say that but down the years major nations have had players who've been naturalised from living in the country for a certain period of time. Germany had Cacau playing for them years ago, Italy had Amauri and Portugal had likes of Pepe and Deco who elevated their level on the pitch. Spain won Euro 2008 with Marcos Senna a regular in their midfield, he was Brazilian but acquired Spanish citizenship in 2006.

I do accept the coaching arguments but those leading nations have been playing the odd player who hasn't come through their system whereas it's not something England have ever really done. Example would've been calling up Arteta around 2010 as no Spanish caps and he was close to being eligible as had been living in the U.K for over five years.

Portugal currently have a Spanish manager in charge and Brazil wanted Ancelotti so I do think it could change for some of the leading nations in the next decade. Italy would take Guardiola if he wanted to manage them I'm sure.

Almunia was the closest to a call up at one point. An example of how poor England's goalkeepers have been since Seaman.

[Davkaus]

44 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

BBC football website must have 17 of the top 20 stories about this guy.

Overkill much?

 

Well it helps that it's a slow news day, the only other thing they've got to write about is the women's Champions League. 

[cheltenham_villa]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

You say that but down the years major nations have had players who've been naturalised from living in the country for a certain period of time. Germany had Cacau playing for them years ago, Italy had Amauri and Portugal had likes of Pepe and Deco who elevated their level on the pitch. Spain won Euro 2008 with Marcos Senna a regular in their midfield, he was Brazilian but acquired Spanish citizenship in 2006.

I do accept the coaching arguments but those leading nations have been playing the odd player who hasn't come through their system whereas it's not something England have ever really done. Example would've been calling up Arteta around 2010 as no Spanish caps and he was close to being eligible as had been living in the U.K for over five years.

Portugal currently have a Spanish manager in charge and Brazil wanted Ancelotti so I do think it could change for some of the leading nations in the next decade. Italy would take Guardiola if he wanted to manage them I'm sure.

I know, I also don't support those events. I think international football should be a test of the nation at producing footballer, coaches and a playing style. 

All of these things take us further away from that. 

I'll support Tuchel because I can't change any of this and I still support England. It's just what I'd prefer. 

[beachboys1]

4 hours ago, Davkaus said:

We're also far from the only country towards the top of the FIFA rankings to either have a foreign manager or have had one recently.

ROBERTO MARTINEZ belgium now portugal

[fightoffyour]

23 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think the best appointment would have been someone who could carry on those positives but improve the tactics side.

Sounds like Dean Smith, not that he would've ever been generally accepted. And nor would it be right at this point in his career. But it sounds like Smith.

12 hours ago, oishiiniku_uk said:

'Southgate built something special and distinctly English' (whatever the hell that means)

Easy, 'distinctly English' means 'shit'.

[Herman22]

The whole England manager thing has gone very Brexit means Brexit. 

Even people like Lineker are saying it should be an English coach. Then he names RoI international Carsley as his pick. 

What it essentially boils down to is that people in English football think English footballers should get preferential treatment over foreigners. It’s the reason why shit managers like Lampard, Gerard, Neville, etc have gotten big jobs and failed miserably. 

[Stevo985]

43 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Sounds like Dean Smith, not that he would've ever been generally accepted. And nor would it be right at this point in his career. But it sounds like Smith.

I don't think Smith is good enough to be honest.

Just after he left us, and even when he was with us, I was of the same opinion. I probably said on here that he'd be a great choice, I certainly said it in my friends group.

But I don't think so anymore. And you're right, there'd be uproar if we gave a current MLS manager the England job

[fightoffyour]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't think Smith is good enough to be honest.

Just after he left us, and even when he was with us, I was of the same opinion. I probably said on here that he'd be a great choice, I certainly said it in my friends group.

But I don't think so anymore. And you're right, there'd be uproar if we gave a current MLS manager the England job

Certainly might not be good enough, and yet absolutely leagues, different sports entirely above Southgate levels.

[Stevo985]

5 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Certainly might not be good enough, and yet absolutely leagues, different sports entirely above Southgate levels.

Good point to be fair  

[The_Steve]

47 minutes ago, Herman22 said:

The whole England manager thing has gone very Brexit means Brexit. 

Even people like Lineker are saying it should be an English coach. Then he names RoI international Carsley as his pick. 

What it essentially boils down to is that people in English football think English footballers should get preferential treatment over foreigners. It’s the reason why shit managers like Lampard, Gerard, Neville, etc have gotten big jobs and failed miserably. 

English football has and remains a boys club. They’d rather keep it that way. It’s why so many managers struggle to break through. It wasn’t that long ago that the likes of Allardyce and co were linked to every job whenever someone got sacked or left. Tuchel is honestly a welcome change. He’s his own man and a winner. 

[bobzy]

48 minutes ago, Herman22 said:

The whole England manager thing has gone very Brexit means Brexit. 

Even people like Lineker are saying it should be an English coach. Then he names RoI international Carsley as his pick. 

He’s still English, though.