tinker Posted Tuesday at 19:22 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 19:22 He's a decent coach and that's far better than Southgate and Carsley. With our squad and him in charge we have a very good chance of winning something. Be interesting to see his first 11 when everyone is fit, there's some obvious pointers, for me, to how affective he will be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted Tuesday at 19:26 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 19:26 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Genie said: The job of England manager is to mould a group of top level footballers, and Pickford, into a team. Individually we have known for a long time they are good enough to win trophies but it’s getting them working as a unit that is the difficult part. For some reason each England manager feels like they need to reinvent the game when things get tense rather than just doing the basics well. I don’t really know enough about Tuchel tbh to have a view on how suited for the role I think he will be. IMO, the real purpose of an England manager is to make the English public believe they are being robustly and truthfully represented on the global football stage. Winning matters, but even winning is sometimes secondary to "being English football" on an international pitch. Southgate was just about perfect in some ways, but too many English people felt he reminded them of stuff they don't want to be reminded of. You don't need an Englishman to create this sense of contemporary, multicultural English footballing identity, of course. Some of the most widely recognised "English" things are hardly English at all -- particularly the language. Handel, the "Windsors," etc. German, German -- and Anglo-Saxon (obviously, from Frisia). But you need someone who can lead in the way you will be willing to let them lead. So maybe that means forging a "team," as you say. I don't know. I just know it's complicated and weird. And challenging. Can Tuchel? I guess we'll see. I don't think we can know for at least a couple years, so hurry up and wait. Edited Tuesday at 19:29 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted Tuesday at 19:26 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:26 4 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Come here to rant and moan about Tuchel. I simply don't rate the guy. He got lucky once and won the champions league, with a team built by another manager. Horrible counter attacking style. Going to play Kane every game. Even though Kane is a fantastic player, he isn’t right for England, we need a striker that will stretch teams. Playing Bellingham, Palmer, Saka, Grealish, or Foden in a three behind Kane will never work unless we play average teams that can only sit deep and park the bus. None of England's current wide players and no 10's want to run beyond Kane or have the pace to do so (except Saka, who drops very deep to protect his fullback so can't get beyond Kane as a result). And then they have the added problem of Kane dropping deep into the no 10 position and getting in the way of the proper no 10. This is basically like hiring Sven and Cappello all over again. Good managers that have won things but all wrong for the players they have at their disposal. In fact Cappello and Sven were better than Tuchel ever will be. The FA is a dinosaur convention, sack the lot of them! Cappello and Sven had to deal with a load of big Egos and relationship drama. Southgate dragged us to a final twice. Tuchel is in a different league to Southgate, so surely if Southgate can do a bit, Tuchel can get us over the line with this group of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted Tuesday at 19:29 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:29 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: If he's got any sense he builds it around Bellingham But I've got no problem with kane, on his day he's still top top class, there's 3 things with him, he has to stop the Roy of the rovers bullshit, he has to be dropped if he's not fit and a genuine back up has to be given a chance to develop, we will play 10 world cup qualifiers at a guess, kane should starting 4 or 5 of them tops, not Malta at home like the last clown did and then moan about lack of experience in other players afterwards You should NEVER build a national team around one player unless he's effectively indestructible, unless you 2 other players that have a similar game and are almost as good. This is why we will never win with a team built around Kane or Bellingham. If England build a team around someone, it should be a number 10 like Foden. As in addition to him we also have Grealish who can play no 10 in the playmaker style, like Foden, and then we have Maddison and Palmer who are similar to Foden. But if we build around the no 10 position, then Kane has to be benched, as he gets in the way, and opposition defences can camp in our half knowing no one in the team can exploit the space in behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted Tuesday at 19:30 VT Supporter Share Posted Tuesday at 19:30 By all accounts Tuchel it's the kind of guy that could start a brawl in an empty room, so maybe the less daily grind nature of an international job might work for him. On the other hand, he does appear to wind up everyone he encounters by his sheer presence, and the England job eats everyone, so I predict this'll be a disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted Tuesday at 19:31 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:31 11 minutes ago, TreeVillan said: I'm not a big fan of Tuchels but this is a giant step up from Southgate so I'm happy. He's light years ahead of Southgate actually making proper tactical decisions when a game starts (although that is a very low bar indeed). Not sure on the World cup but England need to be winning Euro 2028 so this sort of appointment makes that a more realistic target. Not sure he'll be dropping Kane anytime soon though given they've just worked together for 12 months. Mount could also get a recall when fit as he played well for Tuchel at Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted Tuesday at 19:31 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:31 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Cappello and Sven had to deal with a load of big Egos and relationship drama. Southgate dragged us to a final twice. Tuchel is in a different league to Southgate, so surely if Southgate can do a bit, Tuchel can get us over the line with this group of players. Tuchel is the German Southgate, you will see! Let see if he gets Southgate's luck of the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJG23 Posted Tuesday at 19:31 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:31 (edited) The FA have probably decided they want a “big name” coach and Tuchel is available without having to negotiate a release for him and pay compensation. No idea how it will work out football wise. He seems to be a bit Marmite i.e. love him or hate him. If he makes decisions that upset certain players and is divisive then it will depend on results. Edited Wednesday at 07:45 by AJG23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted Tuesday at 19:32 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:32 Phenomenal appointment. Most exciting appointment England has made in decades. Could go either way as Tuchel has a difficult personality but he is a genius of a tactician. If it clicks I’m confident he’ll win us a trophy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted Tuesday at 19:37 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:37 49 minutes ago, villa4europe said: And Eric Dier... Interested to see how the criticisms of him in club football work in international football, he hasn't got a director of football to fall out with or a transfer policy to moan about The squad is there, it's good enough to win something as 2 finals show Personally I don't rate him and players don't play for him but we'll see All on Euro 2028 for me. I don't see England challenging at next World cup unless it's a Southgate style draw in the knock outs. Watch England get a path like Brazil last 16, Portugal QFs, Spain SF now Southgate is no longer there. Has Jeff Powell said anything yet? Five page spread in the Mail tomorrow I bet. The most Little Englander journalist you can get currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrootVilla Posted Tuesday at 19:39 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:39 23 minutes ago, TreeVillan said: I'm not a big fan of Tuchels but this is a giant step up from Southgate so I'm happy. A toddlers slide is a big step up from the fraud 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted Tuesday at 19:50 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:50 The step up is insane. But of course, he probably won't get Southgate's draws. I don't even care. I just want to not hate watching England. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted Tuesday at 19:53 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:53 31 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Come here to rant and moan about Tuchel. I simply don't rate the guy. He got lucky once and won the champions league, with a team built by another manager. Horrible counter attacking style. Going to play Kane every game. Even though Kane is a fantastic player, he isn’t right for England, we need a striker that will stretch teams. Playing Bellingham, Palmer, Saka, Grealish, or Foden in a three behind Kane will never work unless we play average teams that can only sit deep and park the bus. None of England's current wide players and no 10's want to run beyond Kane or have the pace to do so (except Saka, who drops very deep to protect his fullback so can't get beyond Kane as a result). And then they have the added problem of Kane dropping deep into the no 10 position and getting in the way of the proper no 10. This is basically like hiring Sven and Cappello all over again. Good managers that have won things but all wrong for the players they have at their disposal. In fact Cappello and Sven were better than Tuchel ever will be. The FA is a dinosaur convention, sack the lot of them! Chelsea had been managed by Frank Lampard for the previous 18 months and think they were 8th or 9th in prem when he was sacked. It's not like Avram Grant taking Mourinho's team to CL final in 2008. I do agree on the Kane stuff though so that's a decision that will have to be made eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted Tuesday at 19:55 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:55 3 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: The step up is insane. But of course, he probably won't get Southgate's draws. I don't even care. I just want to not hate watching England. Tuchel plays defensive counter attacking football, the same as Southgate. Same shit different day! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted Tuesday at 19:57 Share Posted Tuesday at 19:57 On balance I think I'll give him a few months to see how he sets the team up before being livid about him over utilising Harry Kane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted Tuesday at 20:00 Share Posted Tuesday at 20:00 2 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Tuchel plays defensive counter attacking football, the same as Southgate. Same shit different day! I mean when you put it like that, the free-flowing attacking attempts at football from Vincent Kompany's Burnley means he's exactly the same as Jurgen Klopp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted Tuesday at 20:03 Share Posted Tuesday at 20:03 2 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Chelsea had been managed by Frank Lampard for the previous 18 months and think they were 8th or 9th in prem when he was sacked. It's not like Avram Grant taking Mourinho's team to CL final in 2008. I do agree on the Kane stuff though so that's a decision that will have to be made eventually. Lampard got Chelsea 4th plus an FA Cup final the season before Tuchel replaced him. Frank Lampard had brought through young players when Chelsea were transfer banned. Then Chelsea brought in two Germans (Havertz and Werner once the ban was lifted), sold a number of the young players, kept a few of the young players who had become better players after a season of first team football. Tuchel is overrated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted Tuesday at 20:13 Share Posted Tuesday at 20:13 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I mean when you put it like that, the free-flowing attacking attempts at football from Vincent Kompany's Burnley means he's exactly the same as Jurgen Klopp. Klopp is a winner at every team he managed, Tuchel is not. Tuchel ok at PSG where he signed Mbappe and had easilythe best team in the league over his two seasons he won only french domestic honors. Only Chelsea and Dortmund did he win 3 other trophies. The champions league and uefa Super cup at Chelsea. The German FA cup equivalent at Dortmund. His CV isn't particularly impressive when average managers like Laurent Blanc won everything in Fance at PSG. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted Tuesday at 20:16 Share Posted Tuesday at 20:16 2 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Klopp is a winner at every team he managed, Tuchel is not. Tuchel ok at PSG where he signed Mbappe and had easilythe best team in the league over his two seasons he won only french domestic honors. Only Chelsea and Dortmund did he win 3 other trophies. The champions league and uefa Super cup at Chelsea. The German FA cup equivalent at Dortmund. His CV isn't particularly impressive when average managers like Laurent Blanc won everything in Fance at PSG. There are probably a large number of valid arguments for "Tuchel isn't the best manager and here's why...", I just take issue with "well he plays a similar style of football so what's the point". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted Tuesday at 20:20 Popular Post Share Posted Tuesday at 20:20 47 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Tuchel is the German Southgate, you will see! Let see if he gets Southgate's luck of the draw. agree they are very similar managerial careers Managerial career 2007–2008 FC Augsburg II 2009–2014 Mainz 05 2015–2017 Borussia Dortmund 2018–2020 Paris Saint-Germain 2021–2022 Chelsea 2023–2024 Bayern Munich Managerial career 2006–2009 Middlesbrough 2013–2016 England U21 2016–2024 England 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts