The club's relationship with the fans

[Tomaszk]

4 hours ago, DakotaVilla said:

The club is definitely looking at improving the Holte End concourses. Sounds like it will be more significant than just a lick of paint. 

What, even MORE piss?

[Villa_Vids]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

And funnily enough those 5 people hardly ever go to games so actually have no idea about how most fans feel. 
 

(But tell the fans that do that they’re living in a bubble)

The red card protest was telling - total failure.

 

[TRO]

On 27/09/2024 at 10:41, Teale's 'tache said:

That is hyperbolic in the extreme.

To be honest, I find the anti-Heck circlejerk on here boring. He's made mistakes sure, but you'd think he was a one man wrecking ball drafted in to destroy the club, rather than just your everyday hard-nosed executive brought in to make more money.

I have sympathy with fans being priced out, but understand the need for the club to up its revenues, raising ticket prices is never going to be popular no matter how good things may be on the pitch.

The owners saved us, and have taken us on an incredible journey so far, I think it would be ridiculous to be throwing shade in their direction considering everything they have done for us, I wouldn't bite the hand that has fed us unless there was a really good reason.

I get people aren't happy with some things, and plenty are very vocal about it which is fine, but things change, football is changing constantly, and we need to change as well, you just have to mind that those changes are for the better.

We are here to hold the club to account, the club is not perfect, as such there will always be complaints. Those complaints always seem louder on places like this.

Also, some people just love a good moan, I thought it was just a British thing, but judging by the international nature of this place and the level of moaning, it's clearly a global thing.

The owners have done a fabulous job, in rebuilding our club and our team....but they are also entitled to know how we feel, too.

Free Speech is still alive and kicking....and they will be open to our feed back...organisations spend enormous time and money on the subject.

I am inclined to avoid calling it moaning, as that seems to be the label given to someone else's complaints, it's a bit negative......We as individuals are ok doing it ourselves, but have little time to listen to other folks grievances, it tends to be burdensome to us.

I am not sure what to think of the off field shenanigans, but I was always sceptical of how the cancellation of the North Stand Project, would play out, because in terms of revenue generation for the club, it has closed quite a few avenues of opportunity.

I think we have to accept, in the context of "supply and demand", us season ticket holders are sitting ducks....We are not the cherished species we thought we was, and that alone could irk some.

We have to remember, we are competing off the field as well as on it....and that in itself could be causing frustration, to the revenue creators.

However, I think it's only right, that the club have a facility or process for hearing fans concerns, even if they can't address them all.....in such circumstances acknowledgment is key, and concerns noted, even if they can't act upon them  imminently.

Communication is key.....and I am not talking about pandering to us,I am talking  just respecting us.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:33 by TRO

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

No point being good on the pitch if fans can’t afford to go and watch. 

It's really sad seeing the Bologna game online currently with pretty much every block not sold out and then you click on one and it's there...£85, Adults.

Even at 50-55 quid I'd probably have gone just to say I'd seen a CL game at VP live but with xmas coming out and between freelance work I simply can't justify that price.

Going to be very embarrassing if we only manage 35-36k for that match.

[markavfc40]

8 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Going to be very embarrassing if we only manage 35-36k for that match.

Probably a little hypocritical given I have bought tickets but a part of me hopes this happens and I am someone who hates seeing empty seats.

The only people who should be embarrassed though are those who set the extortionate prices. You'd hope, although I wouldn't be holding my breath given the arrogant attitude of some at the club, that they'd be looking to ensure they weren't embarrassed again and set prices accordingly going forward. 

[Brumstopdogs]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

Well that's not true is it. Ticket prices are going to raise an extra £5m or so. We could instead sell an under 21 player, sponsor The North Stand, sponsor the Training Ground, get an official cutlery partner, car tyre partner, grass seed partner, official mini bus supplier, shed partner. Hundreds of opportunities rather than just squeezing the junkies for more hits. 

Have you not opened discussions with Chris Heck yet?

[QldVilla]

2 hours ago, El Segundo said:

I'd say fans target Heck more for the way he goes about things than for what he's doing.  Does  he take direction from NS to lie through his teeth about more or less every decision he makes and showing absolute disdain for the fans and their wishes? I think most fans understand and at least grudgingly accept the reasons for what is being done, and the trade off required to sustain success, but not the way this ham-fisted bullshitting hatchet man is going about it.    

Your kidding aren’t you? What decisions has he lied about, I see a small section of fans not happy with the club decisions, but that doesn’t mean those decisions are not the correct ones. Wishes? The club is a business and they take all due consideration, but your wishes may not be a good business decision for the club.

[QldVilla]

2 hours ago, El Segundo said:

You're missing my point. It's the way he's carrying out their instructions that is an issue for me and many others.  There's more than one way to skin a cat, and some of them don't include dismissing the views of the fanbase and blatantly lying to them and the media.  And some of my ire is directed at NSWE for allowing him to go about it in such a fashion.  

You need to start with in your opinion. He’s not here to give you a hug, he’s here to deliver. Just because you don’t like the delivery, doesn’t mean you’re right. This is big business not the local confectionary store.

[Captain_Townsend]

1 minute ago, QldVilla said:

You need to start with in your opinion. He’s not here to give you a hug, he’s here to deliver. Just because you don’t like the delivery, doesn’t mean you’re right. This is big business not the local confectionary store.

Big business needs customers mate and if the customer service is shit and the staff are rude they aren't getting my money.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Villa_Vids said:

The red card protest was telling - total failure.

 

Again, just because fans aren’t willing to protest doesn’t mean the relationship isn’t bad. 

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Where did I do that? I‘m just disagreeing with the first line of the first post in this thread, where it’s being claiming that this is the lowest point in relations between the club and fans since Ellis. Given the journey the club has been on since then, that’s massive hyperbole - and that’s all the post you originally replied to said.

Obviously success on the pitch doesn’t give the people at the top a free pass to do whatever they want. But it does still count for something, and there’s no way you can make an argument for this being worse than Xia or late-stage Lerner unless you’re pretending nobody cares about the football (or the club possibly going bankrupt).

I think the relationship between the club and the fans is worse right now than anything under Xia. I honestly do. 
 

Which proves the point that it’s about more than what’s happening on the pitch. Because obviously the club is far FAR better run in every other way now than it was under that charlatan. 

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, Villa_Vids said:

The red card protest was telling - total failure.

 

no, people just didn't want to take it out on the players by creating a negative atmosphere. there's also the element of how it would be portrayed in the media and by other fans. we all know what the narrative would be

"they've made a flying start in the league, they're in the champions league, what are they moaning about?"

[Andy_10]

1 hour ago, QldVilla said:

Your kidding aren’t you? What decisions has he lied about, I see a small section of fans not happy with the club decisions, but that doesn’t mean those decisions are not the correct ones. Wishes? The club is a business and they take all due consideration, but your wishes may not be a good business decision for the club.

Do you see all of that via satellite all the way across the other side of the world in Brisbane, Australia?

He lied about the crest.

A 42 year anniversary edition? Or whatever nonsense he said. The only anniversary crest we actually needed was a 150th year celebration crest. And he created some weird Americana inspired stamp on the back of the shirts for that. But a 42 year anniversary crest?

We arent 5 years old. If he was just honest & said it reminded him of Chelseas & that wouldn't work for the branding, then fine. I would accept that. And I think most fans would too. Most did with the Douglas Luiz/PSR issue that I have mentioned below. But he didn't. He said it was a random year anniversary crest. He also blamed sales. Which was corrupted data as two crests competed against each other at the same time, & was data gathered far too early to be anything other than corrupted nonsense. And then he blamed the costing of changing it around the stadium, training ground, etc. Which again, utter nonsense. It may look "similar" to the untrained eye, but when you break down each element to the sum of its individual parts, especially for reproduction around the stadium & training ground, they are all different sizes, widths, piping, different typeface, 'that' ridiculous drop shadow, etc, etc. The only "cheap option" would have been placing the lino art lion into the fans voted circle. It would have fixed the fans issue of the lion facing the wrong way, it would have kept a continuity with the overall branding after the change to the circle, & the changes around the stadium & training ground could have been done by removing the shield, leaving the lion on its own & making any other changes gradually. 

So he lied.

He lied about the stand. "Too many seats too soon"? What does that even mean? Just admit that they want to work on the corporate side of the stadium & they have different long term plans for the stadium.

If he/they are honest, fans will accept a lot more than we are given credit for.

And for the proof of that, you only have to look at the summers sale of Douglas Luiz. I think Sawiris explained the difficult PSR situation we were in & the tough decisions that needed to be made, but the hard truth was given to us like adults, with respect & honesty.

And we as fans, accepted the situation for what it was.

Good communication is key for branding when it comes to big business. And Hecks communication is poor.

And thats not "wanting a hug". Thats wanting the business that I, as a customer, give a lot of money to each year, to show me the basic trust & honesty to not lie to me, to show me some respect, treat me like an adult & do the very basics of branding 101 when it comes to keeping the core customer base of the company happy & engaged with the brand. And again, Im not talking "for" the fanbase. I am talking from a branding exercise perspective. 

Edited Saturday at 14:04 by Andy_10

[Villa_Vids]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

no, people just didn't want to take it out on the players by creating a negative atmosphere. there's also the element of how it would be portrayed in the media and by other fans. we all know what the narrative would be

"they've made a flying start in the league, they're in the champions league, what are they moaning about?"

Rightfully so too. Media have still run with it - they love this negativity that STHs/legacy fans are providing them. We (all fans) need to show some mettle and have a pop at uefa/Premier League - ticketing should be reasonable across the board. I am not turning on our best owners because of a rigged system.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Probably a little hypocritical given I have bought tickets but a part of me hopes this happens and I am someone who hates seeing empty seats.

The only people who should be embarrassed though are those who set the extortionate prices. You'd hope, although I wouldn't be holding my breath given the arrogant attitude of some at the club, that they'd be looking to ensure they weren't embarrassed again and set prices accordingly going forward. 

In light of what has been achieved so far, by our owners. I would be surprised if they presided over an employee that has an arrogant attitude towards paying customers, at the same time as accepting its your opinion.

They have worked so hard to engender a good relationship with us, by working the oracle of creating a good team. I can’t believe they would risk all that, by having a rogue director.

Edited Saturday at 15:11 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Andy_10 said:

Do you see all of that via satellite all the way across the other side of the world in Brisbane, Australia?

He lied about the crest.

A 42 year anniversary edition? Or whatever nonsense he said. The only anniversary crest we actually needed was a 150th year celebration crest. And he created some weird Americana inspired stamp on the back of the shirts for that. But a 42 year anniversary crest?

We arent 5 years old. If he was just honest & said it reminded him of Chelseas & that wouldn't work for the branding, then fine. I would accept that. And I think most fans would too. Most did with the Douglas Luiz/PSR issue that I have mentioned below. But he didn't. He said it was a random year anniversary crest. He also blamed sales. Which was corrupted data as two crests competed against each other at the same time, & was data gathered far too early to be anything other than corrupted nonsense. And then he blamed the costing of changing it around the stadium, training ground, etc. Which again, utter nonsense. It may look "similar" to the untrained eye, but when you break down each element to the sum of its individual parts, especially for reproduction around the stadium & training ground, they are all different sizes, widths, piping, different typeface, 'that' ridiculous drop shadow, etc, etc. The only "cheap option" would have been placing the lino art lion into the fans voted circle. It would have fixed the fans issue of the lion facing the wrong way, it would have kept a continuity with the overall branding after the change to the circle, & the changes around the stadium & training ground could have been done by removing the shield, leaving the lion on its own & making any other changes gradually. 

So he lied.

He lied about the stand. "Too many seats too soon"? What does that even mean? Just admit that they want to work on the corporate side of the stadium & they have different long term plans for the stadium.

If he/they are honest, fans will accept a lot more than we are given credit for.

And for the proof of that, you only have to look at the summers sale of Douglas Luiz. I think Sawiris explained the difficult PSR situation we were in & the tough decisions that needed to be made, but the hard truth was given to us like adults, with respect & honesty.

And we as fans, accepted the situation for what it was.

Good communication is key for branding when it comes to big business. And Hecks communication is poor.

And thats not "wanting a hug". Thats wanting the business that I, as a customer, give a lot of money to each year, to show me the basic trust & honesty to not lie to me, to show me some respect, treat me like an adult & do the very basics of branding 101 when it comes to keeping the core customer base of the company happy & engaged with the brand. And again, Im not talking "for" the fanbase. I am talking from a branding exercise perspective. 

Andy, you are far more invested in a badge than I am…that is clearly important to you…..but if the owners were unhappy with the way he conducts himself something would surely be said.

If that is to be the case, maybe we can look forward to better communication from him.

In my case, I would just accept what badge design the club have come up with, trusting their integrity, to get all the salient bits covered.

I say this guardedly, but I am on the fence with too much fan consultation….they have to be allowed to get on with it, with all there is to do.

Edited Saturday at 15:21 by TRO

[TRO]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

It's really sad seeing the Bologna game online currently with pretty much every block not sold out and then you click on one and it's there...£85, Adults.

Even at 50-55 quid I'd probably have gone just to say I'd seen a CL game at VP live but with xmas coming out and between freelance work I simply can't justify that price.

Going to be very embarrassing if we only manage 35-36k for that match.

They say you “reap what you sow”

I guess, sadly it’s the main driving metric in a “supply and demand” philosophy.

 

 

[markavfc40]

44 minutes ago, TRO said:

In light of what has been achieved so far, by our owners. I would be surprised if they presided over an employee that has an arrogant attitude towards paying customers, at the same time as accepting its your opinion.

They have worked so hard to engender a good relationship with us, by working the oracle of creating a good team. I can’t believe they would risk all that, by having a rogue director.

They haven't created a good team. They have employed an extremely gifted manager that has done that. The appointment before that was the complete opposite. 

We have a hell of a lot to be thankful for these owners for. Exploiting/disregarding supporters that were there through thin and thinner, off the back of a very short period of upturn, isn't something I'll be thanking them for. We are now paying top dollar, and some in comparison to other clubs certainly in terms of CL, and the arrogance for me comes in via the fact that the communication is diabolical, that many of us are having to wade through piss when using the toilets, that even getting to the ground 40 minutes early doesn't guarantee you'll make kick off due to the digital ticketing issues, that many long term loyal supporters have been split up from family/friends and that some supporters are arriving to find they have purchased seats that don't exist. All those issues, and more I haven't mentioned, and little, if anything, by way of apology is arrogance. 

[Andy_10]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

Andy, you are far more invested in a badge than I am…that is clearly important to you…..but if the owners were unhappy with the way he conducts himself something would surely be said.

If that is to be the case, maybe we can look forward to better communication from him.

In my case, I would just accept what badge design the club have come up with, trusting their integrity, to get all the salient bits covered.

I say this guardedly, but I am on the fence with too much fan consultation….they have to be allowed to get on with it, with all there is to do.

My career is graphic design.

I have been fortunate enough for recent roles within the industry to have worked within the sports industry too, so my career wasn't just a job. It's something that I am very passionate about, especially when it revolves around my other big passion in Villa.

So, yes, to me the crest is a very important issue.

Granted, it's not to everybody. That message I get loud & clear & I respect that.

But, when I talk about the crest, I am only highlighting certain areas because due to my career experiences, I am confident enough to know that some of these excuses given by Heck are utter nonsense. And that bothers me more than the fact that the new design is, in my humble opinion, utter garbage. I have never actually mentioned that on here before, other than the odd side comment about something like the drop shadow being ridiculous. They might as well have used comic sans as well, lol.

And the thing is, the crest is actually a lot more important than a lot of people realise. From a branding perspective, it is the first impression that any current & potential new customers get to see of our business. I accept that its not that important to you, & others, but branding wise it IS important. So to have three in two years, is ridiculous. It's also bad branding, confusing, & would have cost us money. Mostly with merchandise, but if we look disjointed enough as a company to need three brand logos in two years, what does that say to potential partners? And if some people think that it's not important, then why change it again at all? It has never made sense to me from any perspective for Heck to come in & retroactively destroy something just created, & created with fan input. I think we win an award for the process, but I may be mistaken. The whole thing, including the communication has been a debacle.

But I digress, I do not actually understand the owners with how they have given the green light for Purslows fan driven crest & then the next season given the green light for Hecks, in my humble opinion, crest abomination.

So how the owners have reacted to the crest, I obviously have no clue, but I just assume that they are trusting Heck & his sales pitch for the future. Just like they did with Purslow.

[VillaChris]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think the relationship between the club and the fans is worse right now than anything under Xia. I honestly do. 
 

Which proves the point that it’s about more than what’s happening on the pitch. Because obviously the club is far FAR better run in every other way now than it was under that charlatan. 

Xia was too short a reign to really judge (thankfully). I mean you had most on here lapping up those bizarre twitter posts he used to do with all the exclamations and ultimately we did start winning most weeks in the championship. Then it crashed and burned after the Fulham loss but that was during the summer period so no chance to protest at games and thankfully when the next season started NSWE were in.

Not sure what part of the Lerner era we can compare this part of the ownership to as that was pretty much one of two halves when you just look at our league positions and then mass apathy set in.

I think the disappointment is just how quickly the acceleration of jacking up the prices has started. North stand cancellation was about 10 months ago and since then it's been a concentrated effort to rinse every single area of VP. As we've seen in the last six months that works o.k in some areas but not others.

This approach imo will not work out for us post Emery but Heck will likely be long gone by then aswell and think he knows it so he's fulfilling the owners brief dramatically. 

It would've been goodwill at least to lower the ticket prices for Bologna after the furore over what we're charging for the glamour games. Not sure if there's a UEFA rule you have to charge the same prices for all four games but that at least would've eased a little bit of bad feeling.

We aren't failing FFP next summer if we charge 40-55 quid for Bologna.