The club's relationship with the fans

[blunther]

2 hours ago, thabucks said:

Also Villa talk is not a barometer to how fans are feeling and it’s a microcosm and no way indicative of the wider mood no matter how important you feel you or this place is.
 

It's often not a barometer of the wider fanbase at alll, but on current issues of corporate, GA+, seat moving, prices it very much fits the mood in the ground. Spoke to quite a few fans at Wolves, and overheard many more, and none of the conversations were positive, from the toilets to the queues to the prices to the changes, it was a very unhappy fanbase from overheard conversations.

Of course the mood from those that don't have to deal with the issues inside the ground would be different, as it's all gravy footballwise.

[Risso]

I don't think many people are happy, wherever they sit. You're either in GA, and have to put up with crap facilities, or GA+, where you're being charged £80 extra to have a decent bar to buy a drink in at half time (TV) or the same amount in LG to have terrible food and beer before the game, but still have to use the concourses at half time. And then there are the main hospitality areas, where Heck tried to charge people double what they were paying last season, with the end result that vast swathes of it remain unsold.

[ender4]

3 hours ago, Davkaus said:

.I think at the core of the dissatisfaction, for me at least, is that with each price hike, it forces a reconsideration of whether it's worth it, and the love and passion for a premier league football club becomes quite hard to justify when you give more than a moment's thought to the one-sided loyalty of the parasitic relationship we have with a business.

I don't even think its the price rises.  If those price rises were accompanied by great communication, things in the stadium working and improving, other concerns of the fans being taken into account and so on... i think the price rises would be palatable. 

For me this is 100% on Heck and his leadership and then the team directly underneath him.  

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 minutes ago, ender4 said:

If those price rises were accompanied by great communication, things in the stadium working and improving, other concerns of the fans being taken into account and so on... i think the price rises would be palatable. 

This is where I can consistently agree.

[DakotaVilla]

We have the best manager in the world. The owners would love to be able to pump money in but PSR and european rules means that we are going into a duel relatively with a hand gun and our main opponents have all the latest automatic weapons…. And because of Unai’s genius we are still able to compete.

The owners are not taking a single penny from the ticket increases. They have modelled it out and basically said we need a minimum 450m turnover to have any chance of making success sustainable. If we don’t do that we probably lose Unai and no one wants that.

The club is doing everything to help Unai succeed. That’s what all of this is for. 
 

So as fans we have a very simple choice. Do we want us to keep Unai and potentially win the league and multiple trophies or not? 

And before anyone says but what about sponsorship etc etc….. to get to 450m EVERYTHING has to be maximized. Also, Heck is being told what to do by the owners and especially Naz. We seriously need to stop beating on Heck. 

Final point. Whatever you or anyone feels, the decision has already been made. To give Unai every chance of succeeding. Unfortunately that’s going to mean that most of us are going to have to pick and choose games going forward but again, if the alternative was no Unai and solid mid table for 600 a year season ticket and sell our best players every season then what would you prefer? It’s an extremely unpalatable decision but that’s the reality of the situation unfortunately. 

 

[Dillon66]

3 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

1971

Same here, first game 1971.

Old man took me down.

Rotherham at home.

We lost 0-1.

Villa were absolutely shit.

.....and I was hooked for life.

 

Anyway, getting back on topic, its a shame that watching our best team in about 30/40 years, comes at the cost of this disconnect with our fans (whether perceived or not). But I would suggest if the likes of Dave Woodall are throwing the towel in, there's something seriously amiss.

Edited Friday at 16:01 by Dillon66

[ender4]

6 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said:

We have the best manager in the world. The owners would love to be able to pump money in but PSR and european rules means that we are going into a duel relatively with a hand gun and our main opponents have all the latest automatic weapons…. And because of Unai’s genius we are still able to compete.

The owners are not taking a single penny from the ticket increases. They have modelled it out and basically said we need a minimum 450m turnover to have any chance of making success sustainable. If we don’t do that we probably lose Unai and no one wants that.

The club is doing everything to help Unai succeed. That’s what all of this is for. 
 

So as fans we have a very simple choice. Do we want us to keep Unai and potentially win the league and multiple trophies or not? 

And before anyone says but what about sponsorship etc etc….. to get to 450m EVERYTHING has to be maximized. Also, Heck is being told what to do by the owners and especially Naz. We seriously need to stop beating on Heck. 

Final point. Whatever you or anyone feels, the decision has already been made. To give Unai every chance of succeeding. Unfortunately that’s going to mean that most of us are going to have to pick and choose games going forward but again, if the alternative was no Unai and solid mid table for 600 a year season ticket and sell our best players every season then what would you prefer? It’s an extremely unpalatable decision but that’s the reality of the situation unfortunately. 

 

I think you're missing part of the point. The badge debacle, the constant lying by Heck, the toilets awash with piss, the disappearing seats, the dismissal of discussions with FAB, and so on and on... none of that is to do with the £450m target.

[markavfc40]

5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I genuinely think a set of fans who feel one way, wrongly assume that their feelings mirror the whole fanbase.

A lot of fans are the happiest they've ever been as well. Lol

I don't think anybody thinks they speak for everybody, nothing I have seen on here or other platforms has ever suggested that. 

The impression I get is that the majority of those supporters who go regularly, and by regularly I mean season ticket holders/those who attend 10+ games a season, is that those supporters feel they are either being priced out or being taken advantage of or that their loyalty is being disregarded and that their past loyalty doesn't matter. I am very much in that category. Season ticket holder continually since 1988 with my dad, who has since passed, and have had season tickets for my now grown up kids since they were 6 and 10. I spent years purchasing those tickets when after having done so for a lot of games I couldn't have then given them away due to the tripe being served up on the pitch, and the thousands of empty seats there to witness it.

I am fortunate that the prices at the levels they are now I can still afford, although £140 for two tickets for myself and my 18 year old still stings. The affordability for me as an individual isn't the main issue here though. It is that every price rise tips another regular match goer over breaking point and they can't then attend. I see everyday supporters that stuck with us through shit and very, very little shine being pushed over that tipping point. But the price rises are just the easiest target/most visible mass issues. You then throw in the dire state of the toilets for the masses, the fact that even rocking up 40 minutes before the game doesn't get you entry for kick off due to the issues with the digital tickets, that long term season ticket holders have been split up from family/friends, that people are purchasing tickets for seats that don't exist, that the online ticketing system is crap and that communication from the club is diabolical and often shows arrogance. The whole thing reeks of a total disregard for long term match goers.

I got to be honest if I was only attending a handful of games a season, or not attending at all, or if I'd only just become attached to Aston Villa over the last few years I'd be looking at the fans moaning and thinking what is that all about, everything is rosy they should be grateful. But that would be a very superficial view point. Drill down just a little and everything I have written in the paragraph above, and way more that I've missed, and it doesn't take long to see why a lot of regular match goers are rightfully pissed off.

It is also worth remembering the club hasn't actually been that successful yet. Since promotion our average league finish is 11th. No trophy in over 28 years. The last couple of years have been great but there is no guarantee that the upward trajectory will continue. The club stepping over some supporters on the way up will do well to remember they'll be clinging to those same supporters on the way down.

Edited Friday at 17:13 by markavfc40

[DakotaVilla]

Just now, ender4 said:

I think you're missing part of the point. The badge debacle, the constant lying by Heck, the toilets awash with piss, the disappearing seats, the dismissal of discussions with FAB, and so on and on... none of that is to do with the £450m target. 

He’s made big errors and if anything I’ve been his fiercest critic on here until recently but let’s be honest, he’s despised because he’s the one seen to be putting up the prices. 

Do we want Villa to win serious trophies or not? That is the only question the club is asking themselves. Nothing else matters (rightly or wrongly). 
 

 

[MNVillan]

7 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said:

We have the best manager in the world. The owners would love to be able to pump money in but PSR and european rules means that we are going into a duel relatively with a hand gun and our main opponents have all the latest automatic weapons…. And because of Unai’s genius we are still able to compete.

The owners are not taking a single penny from the ticket increases. They have modelled it out and basically said we need a minimum 450m turnover to have any chance of making success sustainable. If we don’t do that we probably lose Unai and no one wants that.

The club is doing everything to help Unai succeed. That’s what all of this is for. 
 

So as fans we have a very simple choice. Do we want us to keep Unai and potentially win the league and multiple trophies or not? 

And before anyone says but what about sponsorship etc etc….. to get to 450m EVERYTHING has to be maximized. Also, Heck is being told what to do by the owners and especially Naz. We seriously need to stop beating on Heck. 

Final point. Whatever you or anyone feels, the decision has already been made. To give Unai every chance of succeeding. Unfortunately that’s going to mean that most of us are going to have to pick and choose games going forward but again, if the alternative was no Unai and solid mid table for 600 a year season ticket and sell our best players every season then what would you prefer? It’s an extremely unpalatable decision but that’s the reality of the situation unfortunately. 

 

Agreed. As the saying goes “don’t hate the player, hate the game.”  Club leadership is doing what they feel like they must do in order to be successful in modern English & European football, and I appreciate their ambition. People who are upset at ticket prices should direct their anger towards the current financial regulations that have directly correlated sustained on-pitch success with a club’s ability to generate massive revenue.

[DakotaVilla]

It’s more than just that. It’s the fact that we have a finite window. We have the best manager in our history right now and probably the best manager we will ever have. It’s now or never.

Im not saying to anyone that we should like it as fans at all but the owners are 100 percent right here (under the current rules)
 

[ender4]

Right now i should be snapping up Bologna tickets as they went on sale 15 mins ago.  Yet i've checked out the ticket site, not queuing, not much traffic and still lots of tickets left.  

I decided i can't be bothered going (even though i can afford it).    Congrats Heck - you got your wish.

[nick76]

21 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said:

So as fans we have a very simple choice. Do we want us to keep Unai and potentially win the league and multiple trophies or not? 

And before anyone says but what about sponsorship etc etc….. to get to 450m EVERYTHING has to be maximized. Also, Heck is being told what to do by the owners and especially Naz. We seriously need to stop beating on Heck. 

If Heck prices out the fans that having being going there for generations and those fans can’t afford to go now because of the price hikes why would those fans care.

I’ve been going for all my life but if I got priced out why would I care as much what happens to Villa.  I will love until the day I die, nobody could question my loyalty or affection for the Villa but what’s the point if I can’t see it.  What does winning the league mean to me if I don’t get to see any of it?  

My bond with the club has been built through me growing up living in the Villa life, if they don’t let me be part of that, then will winning a title then does my emotion decrease.  It’s not as if we can see most of the games on TV in this country (although foreign fans can watch every game).

I’d rather have the balance of being able to go and the usual fans to enjoy it and maybe that slightly limits the ability of winning loads of trophies or only the rich or tourist fans can go and we win loads of trophies.  

Heck seems to be favouring the latter.

I personally don’t think you need to gouge the fans for the small benefit and just focus on the other revenue streams and generate (say) £400m instead of £450m.

 

[sne]

3 hours ago, Mic09 said:

1874.

 

But you try and tell the young people today that… and they won’t believe ya’.

[Panto_Villan]

4 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

If you feel that you are being “piled on” you perhaps should not reply to @Risso’s interesting opening post and @sidcow’s rational reply with “hyperbole” comments.

We get it, it’s seemingly your word of the day. But you’re not helping yourself or your position by dismissing numerous posts as hyperbolic when they’re not.

People are just disagreeing with you. It’s a forum. If you don’t want to feel piled on, I would try to avoid dismissing every view as hyperbolic and try and restrain yourself with the slightly shirty “Is that okay? Am I allowed that opinion?” type comment. It really doesn’t serve you or your stance well.

Is it not hyperbolic to say that that relationship with the board is the worst that it's been since the lows of Doug Ellis, though?

Like, at no point during the reign of Tony Xia when we nearly went into liquidation or when we got relegated under Lerner did people think the board were doing a worse job?

[Captain_Townsend]

47 minutes ago, ender4 said:

I think you're missing part of the point. The badge debacle, the constant lying by Heck, the toilets awash with piss, the disappearing seats, the dismissal of discussions with FAB, and so on and on... none of that is to do with the £450m target.

Thank you, I could hug you. Not everything that some are annoyed about is even going to even remotely help him deliver his targets. If my remit in work was to deliver painful things, financially,  I would at least try to ensure the things that wouldn't have any impact on my financial targets were painless. 

[Zatman]

5 hours ago, tinker said:

If Heck continues to get it wrong the owners will get rid.  They will not micro manage his every move, good managers don't need it and he will fall on his sword if he does.

The ground is dated and the prices have to be raised to cover the fact we can't get 60,000 in at £40 a ticket, we have to charge 40000 £60 and our corporate is behind modern standards. 

But the same fans who would argue against moving away from villa park are the first to moan about the problems staying there gives us.

Changes are coming and that isn't going to please every fan and growing pains will be part of those changes.

But he hasnt continued to get it wrong according to the owners. Was always whispers they werent happy at times with Purslow. Have heard nothing yet to do with Heck

He is either pretty much just following their orders or they are happy with what he is doing. 

They are as complicit

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, Mic09 said:

1874.

What do I win? 

A free coffin

[Czarnikjak]

1 hour ago, DakotaVilla said:

We have the best manager in the world. The owners would love to be able to pump money in but PSR and european rules means that we are going into a duel relatively with a hand gun and our main opponents have all the latest automatic weapons…. And because of Unai’s genius we are still able to compete.

The owners are not taking a single penny from the ticket increases. They have modelled it out and basically said we need a minimum 450m turnover to have any chance of making success sustainable. If we don’t do that we probably lose Unai and no one wants that.

The club is doing everything to help Unai succeed. That’s what all of this is for. 
 

So as fans we have a very simple choice. Do we want us to keep Unai and potentially win the league and multiple trophies or not? 

And before anyone says but what about sponsorship etc etc….. to get to 450m EVERYTHING has to be maximized. Also, Heck is being told what to do by the owners and especially Naz. We seriously need to stop beating on Heck. 

Final point. Whatever you or anyone feels, the decision has already been made. To give Unai every chance of succeeding. Unfortunately that’s going to mean that most of us are going to have to pick and choose games going forward but again, if the alternative was no Unai and solid mid table for 600 a year season ticket and sell our best players every season then what would you prefer? It’s an extremely unpalatable decision but that’s the reality of the situation unfortunately. 

 

I don't think this is true anymore. They pumped in £500m and looks like they decided enough is enough.

Since Aitaros came in, NSWE didn't put in any of their own cash.

We know PSR, but if they REALLY wanted to pump more money in, There are ways around it. Sawirris could get one of his companies to sponsor Bodymoor Heath for example, or they could do what Chelsea did and sell the training ground to themselves.

Not slating them, it's their money and they are under no obligation to keep putting money in, but I don't think your reading of their intentions is correct.

[Mark Albrighton]

19 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

Is it not hyperbolic to say that that relationship with the board is the worst that it's been since the lows of Doug Ellis, though?

Like, at no point during the reign of Tony Xia when we nearly went into liquidation or when we got relegated under Lerner did people think the board were doing a worse job?

I think there’s a difference between a given moment like relegation under Lerner or the threat of going under with Xia and just a general disharmony with the way the off field stuff is taken. 

Of course nearly going under is worse than ticket prices being hiked up while the concourse is drenched in piss. But I take it to all be relative to where the club is. Things should be positive. I think it’s not unfair to say that communication from the club isn’t at its pinnacle and the attitude towards supporters is a bit cold.

My point is that the poster came in kinda guns blazing dismissing everything as “hyperbole”, then frankly got a bit in a huff when people responded in a similar fashion. If the poster hadn’t been so dismissive in their tone right from the off, they might have received a gentler response.

 

Edit - dismissive and contradictory because we can’t “throw shade” at the owners without it being ridiculous but we can if the poster thinks it’s worthy. 

Edited Friday at 17:00 by Mark Albrighton