The club's relationship with the fans

[tinker]

Our owners haven't accepted poor performances from any of our management so you can bet that any poor performances will be dealt with but it will be a measured approach.  There's big changes to come that aren't going to please every fan and problems that need addressing but let's be careful not to throw the baby out with the water.

Harking back to Ellis times, who was an owner, doesn't help us at all. Nothing changed under Xia or Lerner, everyone was happy, under the bonnet we was close to not existing as a club, but the ques were short and the prices were B & M type ones, happy days.

[Tomaszk]

Cabbages raining down onto the executive seats. Can't wait. Right off his bonce.

[CarryOnVilla]

Welcome to corporate football. We’re  just a customer, a brand evangelist, a mark, a shill, a fan. 

the club needs money to maintain this current level of success. No one else is investing. So of course it’s getting its money from the customers. 

it’s shit. It’s real shit. And on top of that the communication is shit. yet I don’t think we are particularly unique in world football… or in “sports entertainment”

Feel priced out after years of loyalty to appease other fans, tough luck, they sing the same songs and spend more. If we are just customers, we don’t have to pay. Our loyalty is just something for marketeers to leverage, good times and the bad. 

Ultimately, we wanted this success, this is price. It’s always been the price. Deep down we always known this. 
 

 

 

[Teale's 'tache]

Of course people can voice their criticisims, I thought I made that clear, I don't see anywhere I said people couldn't?

I said people like to moan which they do, some crisistism is simply more valid than others, I didn't say any was not valid.

The point I was making is that the general consensus across the fan base isn't always the same as it seems to be on here, where it's more of an echochamber.

So just because a bunch on here are very vocal about certain things, it doesn't mean that is how the broader fan base is feeling.

 

[Mark Albrighton]

5 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

Of course people can voice their criticisims, I thought I made that clear, I don't see anywhere I said people couldn't?

I said people like to moan which they do, some crisistism is simply more valid than others, I didn't say any was not valid.

The point I was making is that the general consensus across the fan base isn't always the same as it seems to be on here, where it's more of an echochamber.

So just because a bunch on here are very vocal about certain things, it doesn't mean that is how the broader fan base is feeling.

 

You didn’t say criticism couldn’t be voiced.

You did however say…

1 hour ago, Teale's 'tache said:

The owners saved us, and have taken us on an incredible journey so far, I think it would be ridiculous to be throwing shade in their direction considering everything they have done for us, I wouldn't bite the hand that has fed us unless there was a really good reason.

So what I am asking is, what type of criticism (“throwing shade”) would you NOT consider “ridiculous” to level at the owners?

Because the tone of this segment of your post very much comes across that people shouldn’t complain unless it meets your criteria.

[villa4europe]

same as most things, I struggle with blaming the club, they're like a favourite child where I just refuse to believe that its their fault or they can do wrong....

its modern football, villa are just going along for the ride, they're not outliers doing anything that no other club is doing, its all gone to shit

there seems a huge discourse currently with what fans want and what the club want but unlike previous generations - and im guessing here and some of our older heads can call me out on it - the club now seem to have access to new revenue streams and a wider fan base the answer to the problem seems to be to attract a new fanbase

and again, thats nothing that no one else is doing, its not villa that deserve singling out for criticism its the whole footballing industry

i'd be really interested to know what see what newcastle are doing in terms of ticket prices and corporate areas and new badges etc or new saudi arabia themed kits...from what i've seen west ham are every bit as bad as us, the likes of spurs are long gone with their tunnel club and proposed cheese room etc

with no reason or explanation I blame man utd and americans

[Andy_10]

1 hour ago, Teale's 'tache said:

That is hyperbolic in the extreme.

To be honest, I find the anti-Heck circlejerk on here boring. He's made mistakes sure, but you'd think he was a one man wrecking ball drafted in to destroy the club, rather than just your everyday hard-nosed executive brought in to make more money.

I have sympathy with fans being priced out, but understand the need for the club to up its revenues, raising ticket prices is never going to be popular no matter how good things may be on the pitch.

The owners saved us, and have taken us on an incredible journey so far, I think it would be ridiculous to be throwing shade in their direction considering everything they have done for us, I wouldn't bite the hand that has fed us unless there was a really good reason.

I get people aren't happy with some things, and plenty are very vocal about it which is fine, but things change, football is changing constantly, and we need to change as well, you just have to mind that those changes are for the better.

We are here to hold the club to account, the club is not perfect, as such there will always be complaints. Those complaints always seem louder on places like this.

Also, some people just love a good moan, I thought it was just a British thing, but judging by the international nature of this place and the level of moaning, it's clearly a global thing.

Is it though?

I don't find there is an "anti-Heck circlejerk". You admit yourself that he has made some mistakes & that is discussed on places like this. And part of the reason that he is discussed is because he keeps making mistakes. And then he is discussed, old mistakes are brought up for context, counter points are made, counter-counter points are made, nobody is willing to budge, which is their right as they are confident with their personal viewpoints & the discussion becomes very circular. But part of the reason that he keeps making mistakes is that he is an "everyday hard-nosed executive brought into make more money" & it appears that is the ONLY thing that he cares about. But you just cant run about like a hard-nosed bull in a china shop when running a football club.

Your sympathy is noted & appreciated by those who can no longer afford to go to games. But they still cant afford to go to games anymore. I have said it before & I will say it again, it is branding 101 that a business looks after their core customer base first & foremost before they go chasing a global audience that just isn't there at the moment. Give us more than five minutes in the sun & that global audience will grow, but we should not be trying to chase that over the core customer base. And I am not speaking for the overall fanbase here. I am just talking from a branding exercise, which would be Hecks remit.

The owners are great. They have done some wonderful things. But then again, so did Lerner when he first joined. And let's be honest, not every decision they have made has been 100% spot on. Allowing Gerrard to be hired for starters is something they take some responsibility for. Just like they take some responsibility for some of the things they are allowing Heck to do. The crest, the prices, etc. They take full responsibility for the stand redevelopment cancellation as they allowed themselves to be sold by Heck as to why it should be cancelled. Or, they allowed themselves to be sold by Purslow to get it designed in the first place. Either way, with the amount of money that a new stand would be costing, that is 100% down to them, in my humble opinion. I don't think that highlighting issues is a case of "biting the hand that feeds you". Its merely holding the owners & the executives in charge to account for their actions. And let's be honest, not everything has to be 100% candy-floss grass & lollipop trees. And not everything has to be 100% doom & gloom. The truth is more often than not found in the grey areas.

As with most things in life, there are people who are happy with things as they are & are vocal about it & there are people who are unhappy about things & are vocal about it. Its your job as the one who isn't "hyperbolic" to look past the noise.

But you are right about one thing. Football changes very quickly. We as a club, & by extension, the owners & executives are currently riding a wave of success that we haven't seen in years. If that relative success slows down or stops, then alienating the core customer base & chasing happy clapping day trippers will seem like a pretty stupid idea. And at that point, without the relative success to have as a bit of a shield, the owners & executives will then know what an unhappy fanbase can do. And with the prices as they are, the first thing to be hit will be attendances. Granted, the prices will probably be reduced to accommodate, but that loyalty & trust will be lost between the core customers & the business & I wonder how many will return.

And again, you are right, we as a fanbase are here to hold the clubs owners, executives, manager, players, each other, etc, to account. But if you're not happy with the volume of complaints & praise on places like this, then are places like this really for you? Im not trying to be a dick & Im certainly not telling you what you can/cant or should/shouldn't do, but Im not the one complaining about the "hyperbole" & "volume" of fans on here. For example, I came to despise social media like Facebook & Twitter, so I quit it. There, done, no more toxic imbeciles. I disliked the toxic & clique atmosphere on another forum, so I quit it. (I will pm you about the nature of this comment ).

And again, you are right, people overall just love a moan on social media, forums & the like. It's the nature of humanity. I think it's because negative events affect us more emotionally than positive ones. It's not good for us to do too much of either, as it actually rewires the brain to make it easier to do in the future & makes us see things from a negative perspective.

Edited Friday at 11:20 by Andy_10

[Teale's 'tache]

1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said:

You didn’t say criticism couldn’t be voiced.

You did however say…

So what I am asking is, what type of criticism (“throwing shade”) would you NOT consider “ridiculous” to level at the owners?

Because the tone of this segment of your post very much comes across that people shouldn’t complain unless it meets your criteria.

Well lets put it this way, do you want to run our owners out of town because the toilets were blocked? Does that seem reasonable? I presume not.

I have no specific criterea at which it is okay to go after the owners, and they are not beyond repproach as I made clear, but I don't think we are anywhere near that stage yet, I think it would take a lot more.

Is that okay? Am I allowed that opinion?

[Risso]

It’s very much “the wider fan base” complaining about queuing to get in, ticket prices and extremely poor facilities and not just people on here.

[Risso]

As if billionaires are going to allow themselves to be run out of town. Accusing people of “hyperbole” then actually deciding to post that. Wow.

Edited Friday at 11:12 by Risso

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

Well lets put it this way, do you want to run our owners out of town because the toilets were blocked? Does that seem reasonable? I presume not.

I have no specific criterea at which it is okay to go after the owners, and they are not beyond repproach as I made clear, but I don't think we are anywhere near that stage yet, I think it would take a lot more.

Is that okay? Am I allowed that opinion?

I don't see anybody attempting to 'run our owners out of town', nor is that a thing that can happen. 

Do you think it 'seems reasonable' to complain about blocked toilets and rivers of piss at an event you've paid a lot of money to attend? I do. 

[Mark Albrighton]

Just now, Teale's 'tache said:

Well lets put it this way, do you want to run our owners out of town because the toilets were blocked? Does that seem reasonable? I presume not.

I have no specific criterea at which it is okay to go after the owners, and they are not beyond repproach as I made clear, but I don't think we are anywhere near that stage yet, I think it would take a lot more.

Is that okay? Am I allowed that opinion?

Yes, it is ok for you to have that opinion.

No one has said you shouldn’t hold that opinion, have they? People are simply disagreeing with you. They’re not saying you can’t say something.

Also, has anyone suggested they want the owners out for the reasons stated? I haven’t seen that. They are voicing their dissatisfaction with something but not saying “sack the board” or similar, as far as I can see?

[Davkaus]

There's a broad range of issues and some of them the club could do an awful lot better at, and some of them are going to remain issues because of the obscene wealth and relentless greed in elite football.

They could communicate a hell of a lot better and treat general admission fans with a modicum of basic human decency, if not respect, that's fully within the club's control and they're failing miserably.

The relentless hiking of ticket prices while unexceptional squad players are millionaires will never stop turning my stomach but that's part and parcel of top flight football at this point.

I think at the core of the dissatisfaction, for me at least, is that with each price hike, it forces a reconsideration of whether it's worth it, and the love and passion for a premier league football club becomes quite hard to justify when you give more than a moment's thought to the one-sided loyalty of the parasitic relationship we have with a business.

[Teale's 'tache]

 

1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Yes, it is ok for you to have that opinion.

No one has said you shouldn’t hold that opinion, have they? People are simply disagreeing with you. They’re not saying you can’t say something.

Also, has anyone suggested they want the owners out for the reasons stated? I haven’t seen that. They are voicing their dissatisfaction with something but not saying “sack the board” or similar, as far as I can see?

The pile on for not holding the same opinion as the rest of you is enough to prove my point, this thread is about the fans relationship with the board and by extension the owners, suggesting that the fans aren't happy with the board, by extension means they aren't happy with the owners and how they run the club.

I used hyperbole to make the point that one small issue is not enough to be running to the club with pitchforks in hand, that it should take much bigger issues. Maybe I should of tagged it as hyberbole, as some seem to think I was suggesting people wanted to run the owners out of the club, or maybe they are just being facetious.

[tinker]

If Heck continues to get it wrong the owners will get rid.  They will not micro manage his every move, good managers don't need it and he will fall on his sword if he does.

The ground is dated and the prices have to be raised to cover the fact we can't get 60,000 in at £40 a ticket, we have to charge 40000 £60 and our corporate is behind modern standards. 

But the same fans who would argue against moving away from villa park are the first to moan about the problems staying there gives us.

Changes are coming and that isn't going to please every fan and growing pains will be part of those changes.

[Andy_10]

10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't see anybody attempting to 'run our owners out of town', nor is that a thing that can happen. 

Do you think it 'seems reasonable' to complain about blocked toilets and rivers of piss at an event you've paid a lot of money to attend? I do. 

We are told by some of those that are happy with the status quo within the club that we are nothing but customers these days as thats the nature of modern day football.

And they are not wrong.

But on the flip-side of that, as customers, we have every right to one, expect at the very least sanitary conditions for the product that we are paying for. And two, the right to be able to highlight customer complaints when the product that we are paying for does not come up to scratch. Especially when we are paying a premium for that product.

[Mark Albrighton]

3 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

 

The pile on for not holding the same opinion as the rest of you is enough to prove my point, this thread is about the fans relationship with the board and by extension the owners, suggesting that the fans aren't happy with the board, by extension means they aren't happy with the owners and how they run the club.

I used hyperbole to make the point that one small issue is not enough to be running to the club with pitchforks in hand, that it should take much bigger issues. Maybe I should have tagged it as hyberbole, as some seem to think I was suggesting people wanted to run the owners out of the club, or maybe they are just being facetious.

If you feel that you are being “piled on” you perhaps should not reply to @Risso’s interesting opening post and @sidcow’s rational reply with “hyperbole” comments.

We get it, it’s seemingly your word of the day. But you’re not helping yourself or your position by dismissing numerous posts as hyperbolic when they’re not.

People are just disagreeing with you. It’s a forum. If you don’t want to feel piled on, I would try to avoid dismissing every view as hyperbolic and try and restrain yourself with the slightly shirty “Is that okay? Am I allowed that opinion?” type comment. It really doesn’t serve you or your stance well.

[Andy_10]

12 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

The pile on for not holding the same opinion as the rest of you is enough to prove my point, this thread is about the fans relationship with the board and by extension the owners, suggesting that the fans aren't happy with the board, by extension means they aren't happy with the owners and how they run the club.

I used hyperbole to make the point that one small issue is not enough to be running to the club with pitchforks in hand, that it should take much bigger issues. Maybe I should of tagged it as hyberbole, as some seem to think I was suggesting people wanted to run the owners out of the club, or maybe they are just being facetious.

Mate, honestly, it's not a "pile on".

You have said something that several people disagree with & most of those several people have responded to you directly to discuss the thing that they disagree with you about, because when @sidcow was a little broader with his response, you had a go at them & accused them of "ignoring several parts" of your points & "going on a hyperbolic rant".

It's not personal & your personal feelings don't prove your point to anybody but you.

And again, Im not trying to be a dick, but honestly.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, Teale's 'tache said:

That is hyperbolic in the extreme.

To be honest, I find the anti-Heck circlejerk on here boring. He's made mistakes sure, but you'd think he was a one man wrecking ball drafted in to destroy the club, rather than just your everyday hard-nosed executive brought in to make more money.

I have sympathy with fans being priced out, but understand the need for the club to up its revenues, raising ticket prices is never going to be popular no matter how good things may be on the pitch.

The owners saved us, and have taken us on an incredible journey so far, I think it would be ridiculous to be throwing shade in their direction considering everything they have done for us, I wouldn't bite the hand that has fed us unless there was a really good reason.

I get people aren't happy with some things, and plenty are very vocal about it which is fine, but things change, football is changing constantly, and we need to change as well, you just have to mind that those changes are for the better.

We are here to hold the club to account, the club is not perfect, as such there will always be complaints. Those complaints always seem louder on places like this.

Also, some people just love a good moan, I thought it was just a British thing, but judging by the international nature of this place and the level of moaning, it's clearly a global thing.

I genuinely think a set of fans who feel one way, wrongly assume that their feelings mirror the whole fanbase.

A lot of fans are the happiest they've ever been as well. Lol

Being louder and more visible doesn't automatically = majority.

Getting angry at fans who don't echo their sentiment word for word doesn't change that either.

Edited Friday at 12:10 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[thabucks]

Never felt more connected with the club and loving every minute of being a Villa fan. I  think some just have PTSD after years of being a shit show of a team and club that now we aren’t they need something to moan about and Heck is the obvious outlet. Really don’t give two shits about boardroom decisions right now. If it is making you truly disconnected with the club then I question if it’s just masking  something else and you’ve just not in love with football as you once were. 

Also Villa talk is not a barometer to how fans are feeling and it’s a microcosm and no way indicative of the wider mood no matter how important you feel you or this place is.
 

 

Edited Friday at 12:17 by thabucks